How is the remainder for Taylor polynomials calculated?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the Taylor polynomial of order $n$ for the function $f(x) = \frac{1}{1-x}$ at $x_0=0$ and determining the remainder $R_n$. Participants explore the formulation of the remainder and conditions under which it converges to zero.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the Taylor polynomial and proposes a formula for the remainder $R_n$.
  • Another participant agrees that the proposed remainder formula is valid but notes that there are alternative formulas available.
  • Concerns are raised about the convergence of the remainder, specifically questioning under what conditions it may not converge to zero.
  • Participants discuss that the remainder is ill-defined if $\xi=1$ and that $x$ must be less than 1 for the remainder to converge to zero.
  • There is a consensus that given $0 < x < 1$, the remainder converges for all $\xi \in (0,x)$.
  • One participant suggests using the geometric series to express $\xi$ as a function of $n$ and $x$ to demonstrate that $R_n \rightarrow 0$ as $n \rightarrow \infty$.
  • Another participant confirms that setting $R_n = f(x) - P_n$ is necessary to calculate the value of $\xi$.
  • A calculation is presented that leads to the conclusion that $R_n$ approaches zero, although this remains a point of inquiry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the remainder formula and the conditions for convergence, but there are ongoing inquiries regarding the specifics of the convergence and the calculations involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the remainder's convergence depends on the choice of $\xi$ and the value of $x$, with specific attention to the limits of these variables.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

I want to calculate the Taylor polynomial of order $n$ for the funktion $ f(x) = \frac{1}{ 1−x}$ for $x_0=0$ and $0 < x < 1$ and the remainder $R_n$.

We have that \begin{equation*}f^{(k)}(x)=\frac{k!}{(1-x)^{k+1}}\end{equation*}
I have calculated that \begin{equation*}P_{0,n}(x)=\sum_{k=0}^n\frac{f^{(k)}(0)\cdot x^k}{k!}=\sum_{k=0}^n x^k \end{equation*}

Is the remainder \begin{equation*}R_n=\frac{\frac{(n+1)!}{(1-\xi)^{n+2}}}{(n+1)!}\cdot (x-0)^{n+1}=\frac{x^{n+1}}{(1-\xi)^{n+2}}\end{equation*} ? Or do we have to use an other formula? (Wondering) In some notes I read that in general the remainder doesn't converge to $0$ for all $\xi\in (0,x)$. Can you give me an example for this? (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
Is the remainder \begin{equation*}R_n=\frac{\frac{(n+1)!}{(1-\xi)^{n+2}}}{(n+1)!}\cdot (x-0)^{n+1}=\frac{x^{n+1}}{(1-\xi)^{n+2}}\end{equation*} ? Or do we have to use an other formula?

Hey mathmari! (Smile)

Yep. We can use that remainder.
There are also other formulas for the remainder, but this one should do fine.

mathmari said:
In some notes I read that in general the remainder doesn't converge to $0$ for all $\xi\in (0,x)$. Can you give me an example for this?

To converge, the remainder term has to be well-defined, doesn't it?
For which $\xi$ is it ill-defined, and therefore not convergent? (Wondering)

Furthermore, for the remainder term to converge to zero, we also need a condition on $x$ don't we?
And with that condition it becomes impossible to pick a $\xi$ so that the remainder doesn't converge. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
To converge, the remainder term has to be well-defined, doesn't it?
For which $\xi$ is it ill-defined, and therefore not convergent? (Wondering)

It is ill-defined if $\xi=1$, right? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
Furthermore, for the remainder term to converge to zero, we also need a condition on $x$ don't we?

So that the remainder converges to $0$ it must hold that $x<1$, right? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
It is ill-defined if $\xi=1$, right?

So that the remainder converges to $0$ it must hold that $x<1$, right?

Yep. (Nod)
And it must also hold that $x>-1$.

Anyway, since it is given that $0<x<1$, the remainder converges for all $\xi \in (0,x)$. (Nerd)
 
I like Serena said:
Yep. (Nod)
And it must also hold that $x>-1$.

Anyway, since it is given that $0<x<1$, the remainder converges for all $\xi \in (0,x)$. (Nerd)

So, that means that for all $\xi \in (0,x)$ the remainder converges to $0$, right?
 
mathmari said:
So, that means that for all $\xi \in (0,x)$ the remainder converges to $0$, right?

Yes. (Nod)
 
At the next subquestion it says:

Using the geometric series we can calculate $\xi$ as a function of $n$ and $x$. Do that and show that it really holds that $R_n\rightarrow 0$ for $n\rightarrow \infty$.

Do we have to set equal $R_n=f(x)-P_n$ and calculate the value of $\xi$ ? Or what do I have to do here? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
At the next subquestion it says:

Using the geometric series we can calculate $\xi$ as a function of $n$ and $x$. Do that and show that it really holds that $R_n\rightarrow 0$ for $n\rightarrow \infty$.

Do we have to set equal $R_n=f(x)-P_n$ and calculate the value of $\xi$ ? Or what do I have to do here?

Yes. I believe that is what we need to do.
 
I like Serena said:
Yes. I believe that is what we need to do.

We have that $$R_n=\frac{1}{1-x}-\sum_{k=0}^n x^k =\frac{1}{1-x}-\frac{x^{n+1}-1}{x-1}=\frac{1}{1-x}+\frac{x^{n+1}-1}{1-x}=\frac{x^{n+1}}{1-x} \\ \Rightarrow \frac{x^{n+1}}{(1-\xi)^{n+2}}=\frac{x^{n+1}}{1-x} \Rightarrow \frac{1}{(1-\xi)^{n+2}}=\frac{1}{1-x} \Rightarrow (1-\xi)^{n+2}=1-x \\ \Rightarrow 1-\xi=\sqrt[n+2]{1-x}\Rightarrow \xi=1-\sqrt[n+2]{1-x}$$

If we substitute this in the remainder we get $$R_n=\frac{x^{n+1}}{1-x}\rightarrow 0$$ or not? (Wondering)
 
  • #10
Yep. All correct. (Nod)
 
  • #11
I like Serena said:
Yep. All correct. (Nod)

Great! Thank you so much! :-)
 

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