How Many Elements Are Found in Each Mathematical Set?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the number of elements in two mathematical sets, focusing on the union of sets and modular arithmetic. Participants explore the counting of elements in these sets, addressing both theoretical and practical aspects of set union and congruences.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the first set contains 8995 elements, reasoning that it is the union of sets from {1,2,3,4,5} to {1,2,3,...9000} and subtracting 5.
  • Another participant counters that there are actually 9000 integers from 1 to 9000, questioning the subtraction of 5 and asking which integers are considered missing.
  • A different participant proposes that the first set should be counted as 8996, including both endpoints.
  • For the second set, one participant expresses uncertainty about counting elements, specifically regarding the condition $$1
  • Another participant clarifies that if $i=1$, the set is empty, while for other values of $i$, it contains only the element 2, leading to the conclusion that the second set has two elements.
  • Some participants agree that the first question results in 9000 elements, while others question the reasoning behind this conclusion, suggesting a misunderstanding of the union notation.
  • There is a consensus that the second question results in one element, {2}, with discussions on how to interpret the union of the empty set and {2}.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the count of elements in the first set, with some asserting it contains 9000 elements and others suggesting different counts. There is general agreement that the second set contains one element, {2}, although the reasoning behind this is discussed and clarified.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note potential confusion regarding the notation used for the union of sets and how it relates to indexed collections, indicating a need for clarity in definitions and assumptions.

lemonthree
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Question: How many elements are in each set?

For the first set, I think it's 8995 because the set is the union of {1,2,3,4,5},{1,2,3,4,5,6},...{1,2,3,...9000}. So 9000 - 5 = 8995.

For the second set, I'm not too sure about counting the elements in the set. Since $$1<x≤i$$, I can't think of any x mod i = 2.
For example, I know 5 mod 3 = 2, but 5 > 3 and in this case it wants i to be greater or equal to x...any hints please?
counting-sets.png
 
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There are, of course, 9000 integers from 1to 9000. Why are you subtracting 5? Which integers are missing?

A number, n, is congruent to 2 (mod i) if n= i+ 2. Every number, except 1 and 2, is equal to i+ 2 for some i.
 
lemonthree said:
Question: How many elements are in each set?

For the first set, I think it's 8995 because the set is the union of {1,2,3,4,5},{1,2,3,4,5,6},...{1,2,3,...9000}. So 9000 - 5 = 8995.
I think it's 8996, because you need to count both endpoints.

lemonthree said:
For the second set, I'm not too sure about counting the elements in the set. Since $$1<x≤i$$, I can't think of any x mod i = 2.
For example, I know 5 mod 3 = 2, but 5 > 3 and in this case it wants i to be greater or equal to x...any hints please?
If $i=1$ then the set $\{x\ |\ x \text{ is an integer and } 1<x\leqslant i \text{ and }x=2\pmod i\}$ is the empty set. For all other values of $i$ that set just consists of $x=2$. So your second set is $\emptyset\cup\{2\}$. It therefore contains two elements.
 
Both of you are quite right;

For the first question, there are 9000 elements. @Country Boy How do you know that there are 9000 elements though? Doesn't that symbol represent the union of indexed collection from i = 5 to i = 9000? I see it to be similar to the summation notation but I guess that's where I'm wrong.

For the second question, there is 1 element, i.e. {2}, so @Opalg you are right. We take ∅∪{2} to be equal to {2}. Thank you for the explanation, I realized I could view it as 2 = 0*i + 2, for various i values until infinity, which made sense for {2} to be the only element.
 
If $A\subseteq B$ then $A\cup B= B$. These sets are "nested" so the union is just the largest set.
 
lemonthree said:
Both of you are quite right;

For the first question, there are 9000 elements. @Country Boy How do you know that there are 9000 elements though? Doesn't that symbol represent the union of indexed collection from i = 5 to i = 9000? I see it to be similar to the summation notation but I guess that's where I'm wrong.

For the second question, there is 1 element, i.e. {2}, so @Opalg you are right. We take ∅∪{2} to be equal to {2}. Thank you for the explanation, I realized I could view it as 2 = 0*i + 2, for various i values until infinity, which made sense for {2} to be the only element.
Yes, you are correct. In both cases I was thinking in terms of a set of sets rather than a union of sets.
 

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