How Many Elements Exist If n <= 4?

  • Thread starter Thread starter erisedk
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Elements
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the number of possible elements if only those with a principal quantum number n less than or equal to 4 are considered. Participants explore the implications of this restriction on electron configurations and the resulting count of elements.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates a total of 36 elements based on the periodic table, using the sum of electrons in the first four shells (2+8+8+18).
  • Another participant questions the rules governing the maximum number of electrons for a given principal quantum number n.
  • A third participant suggests the formula 2n^2 as a method to determine the number of electrons for a given n.
  • One participant argues that the count derived from the periodic table does not align with the question's premise, which focuses on the filling order of orbitals when n is at most 4.
  • A later reply clarifies that the energy ordering of orbitals affects the filling sequence, leading to different electronic configurations than those observed in real atoms.
  • Another participant acknowledges the clarification regarding the energy order and thanks the previous contributor for the insight.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct interpretation of the question and the resulting number of elements, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of electron configurations and the influence of orbital energy ordering, which may not align with straightforward counting methods based on principal quantum numbers alone.

erisedk
Messages
372
Reaction score
7

Homework Statement


If elements with principal quantum number n > 4 were not allowed in nature, the number of possible elements would be
(A) 60
(B) 32
(C) 4
(D) 64

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I got 36 from the periodic table (2+8+8+18)
However, that isn't even an option. The answer is 60. Please help.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What are the rules that tell you how many electrons you can have for a given n?
 
2n^2
 
But looking from the periodic table, isn't my answer right?
 
erisedk said:
But looking from the periodic table, isn't my answer right?
If you take only elements which have at most ##n=4## electrons, you indeed get a different number, but this is not what the question is about. What you get from the periodic table depends on the fact that the energy ordering of orbitals doesn't depend only on n, which makes it such that 5s electrons are lower in energy than 4d electrons. But the question says that n is at most 4, so when the 4p orbitals are filled, you will fill the 4d orbitals (and not the 5s as is the case for real atoms). You end up with different electronic configurations.
 
Oh OK, so basically ignoring the energy order. Thank you!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
7K