How Many Trips Will a Bird Make Between Two Trains Before They Crash?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving two trains moving towards each other and a bird flying between them. Participants explore the implications of the bird's trips and the time taken for the trains to collide, examining mathematical models and interpretations of the scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over their mathematical solution, suggesting that the answer of infinity for the number of trips may stem from a flawed approach, particularly regarding the velocities of the trains and the bird changing to zero.
  • Another participant asserts that while there will indeed be an infinite number of trips, the time taken for the trains to collide is finite and can be determined independently of the bird's movements.
  • A third participant notes that the problem can be modeled as a series with an infinite number of terms but a finite sum, relating to the time taken for the trains to meet.
  • A historical anecdote about John von Neumann is shared, highlighting a humorous perspective on the problem and the tendency of people to focus on summing the infinite series.
  • Several participants inquire about the time it takes for the trains to collide, with one clarifying that as long as the speed of the trains is not zero, the question pertains to when they will crash into each other.
  • Another participant calculates that the trains, closing at a speed of 2v, will take time L/2v to collide, while the bird will have flown a distance of Lw/2v in that time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the number of trips the bird makes is infinite, but there is no consensus on the implications of this result or the nature of the mathematical approach to the problem. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best way to account for the changing velocities and the interpretation of the results.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mathematical treatment of the problem, particularly concerning the transition of velocities to zero and how this affects the calculations. There is also a lack of clarity on the assumptions made regarding the speeds of the trains and the bird.

Rainbow
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Here’s a question that I’m stuck with.
Two trains initially separated by distance L are heading towards each other on the same track each with speed v, and a bird flies from train A towards B with constant speed w>v reaches train B and immediately comes back to A with same speed and continues to do so till it sandwiches between the two. Find out the number of trips and time taken before it sandwiches.
I solved it mathematically and got the answer as infinity, which I find hard to accept. I think this is due to the wrong mathematical approach. I mean, at some point of time the velocities of both the trains and the bird change to zero. So, I think we would have to account for this sudden change of variables in our equations. But, the question is how.
 
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'The answer'? You were asked two questions. There certainly will be an infinite number of trips (this is a perfectly valid thing in a model like this that has nothing to do with reality). But the time taken certainly isn't infinite. Indeed, the time taken can be deduced without even thinking about the bird.
 
This goes to a series with an infinite number of terms, or trips, but finite value, or time taken.
 
This remembers me of an anecdote about the famous mathematician John von Neumann:


When this problem was posed to John von Neumann, he immediately replied,
"150 miles."

"It is very strange," said the poser, "but nearly everyone tries to sum the
infinite series."

"What do you mean, strange?" asked Von Neumann. "That's how I did it!"
 
How long does it take for the trains to touch each other?
 
daniel_i_l said:
How long does it take for the trains to touch each other?

As long as v is not equal to 0, wouldn't that actually be "...for the trains to crash into each other"? Poor bird.
 
Two trains initially separated by distance L are heading towards each other on the same track each with speed v
So they are closing on one another at speed 2v. It will take time L/2v (in whatever units are appropriate) for the two trains to "touch" (more correctly, crash). Since the bird flies at speed w, in that time it will have flown distance Lw/2v.
 

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