How many ways can you arrange 128 tennis balls

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    Balls Tennis
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of arranging 128 tennis balls and the implications of this arrangement in terms of configurational entropy and packing density. Participants explore the mathematical and physical principles underlying the arrangements, including comparisons to other systems like gases and granular materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a study claiming that the number of arrangements of 128 tennis balls is approximately 10^250, highlighting the enormity of this number compared to the total number of particles in the universe.
  • One participant suggests that the research offers a method for computing entropy in systems dominated by steric interactions, contrasting this with ideal gas behavior where collisions are rare.
  • Another participant notes the complexity of measuring configurational entropy in granular physics and questions the relevance of artificial intelligence in this context.
  • Concerns are raised about the dimensionality of the arrangement, with one participant arguing that arrangements in 2D would differ significantly from those in 3D.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between combinatorial search spaces in AI and the challenges of efficiently sampling phase spaces, suggesting a connection to the problem of packing.
  • A participant mentions using integer partitions to approach a similar problem, indicating curiosity about the methods employed in the referenced research.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the implications of the research, with some agreeing on the significance of configurational entropy while others question aspects of the study, such as the connection to artificial intelligence. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific methods used in the research and the implications of dimensionality on arrangements.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the constraints of arrangements, particularly regarding dimensionality and the assumptions underlying the calculations of entropy and packing density.

wolram
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160127053413.htm

Researchers have solved an apparently overwhelming physics problem involving some truly huge numbers. In summary, the problem asks you to imagine that you have 128 tennis balls, and can arrange them in any way you like. The challenge is to work out how many arrangements are possible and – according to the research – the answer is about 10^250, also known as ten unquadragintilliard: a number so big that it exceeds the total number of particles in the universe.
 
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So, without reading the paper, it seems like they are offering an approach to computing the entropy of a system where the Hamiltonian is dominated by steric interactions. In other words, for particles which don't interact much except due to collision.

This is very different than an ideal gas where, essentially, the gas molecules can pass through each other, or a better way of thinking of it, that collisions are rare due to low densities. In a pile of sand, collisions are frequent and are a dominant component of the Hamiltonian. You could also have some adhesion forces I suppose.
 
This is their research area.

Despite its complexity, this study also provides a working example of how "configurational entropy" might be calculated in granular physics. This basically means the issue of measuring how disordered the particles within a system or structure are. The research provides a model for the sort of maths that would be needed to solve bigger problems still, ranging from predicting avalanches, to creating efficient artificial intelligence systems.

I can not see where artificial intelligence comes from though.
 
They didn't say much about the constraints of the arrangement.. because if it's in 2 dimensions, it will be much different than in 3 dimensions... Technically the ways of arranging any two objects is infinite... Kinda like "where is there a flat spot on a circle"... the closer you look, and the more accurately you can measure, you keep coming to the fact it's always curved.
 
wolram said:
This is their research area.

Despite its complexity, this study also provides a working example of how "configurational entropy" might be calculated in granular physics. This basically means the issue of measuring how disordered the particles within a system or structure are. The research provides a model for the sort of maths that would be needed to solve bigger problems still, ranging from predicting avalanches, to creating efficient artificial intelligence systems.

I can not see where artificial intelligence comes from though.

The AI remark might be related to search. When you have some combinatorial search space, sampling it efficiently is very difficult. The concept of sampling a phase space, and search in AI are similar.
 
For anyone interested,
some more links of the problem of packing ( ie jam packing where anyone particular settled state can become lower in density )
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-arrange-128-balls-exceeds-atoms-in-universe/
http://cherrypit.princeton.edu/disordered_packings.html
http://cherrypit.princeton.edu/torquato-aps.pdf

For the PDF, the first picture is probably the most descriptive of the problem.
They are attempting to calculate, ( or guestimate ) the area shaded grey.

The lowest density would be a completely ordered crystal structure.

For AI, the best description I can think of is: ( As I see it )
If one wants an answer to a problem, or make a decision, should one take a long time to determine the perfect answer ( the crystal packing ) , or take less time for at least a reasonable answer ( and how far off from the perfect answer would that be ).
To function in the real world, an AI would have to choose the latter.
 
I had a thought about solving a similar problem using integer partitions. I got similar numbers for the problem I was looking at actually. I wonder what approach they used.
 

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