News How much physics helped Elon Musk in creating his companies?

[Grands]

Ok but how start the price price of a stock?
Let's suppose that a new company is founded, who is interested in buying stocks, and who decide how many stocks the company have?

 

[mfb]

The process is called initial public offering (IPO). The price is set by the company. Too high and no one wants to buy shares, too low and you don't get as much money as you could. But the price is then quickly determined by the trade between shareholders.

 

[Grands]

And who decide how many stocks a company has?

 

[NTL2009]

And who decide how many stocks a company has?

@Grands , you've really been all over the map in this thread. From Does Musk use physics, to does he deserve the money, to how he got it, and now the structure of a company and how it's stock is valued, issued, etc.

I think you would be better served by stepping back and reading some sources on basic business fundamentals. It's tough to learn with specific questions w/o first learning the fundamentals.

It would be like trying to learn how a computer works by having a disassembled computer in front of you, and picking up a random piece and asking someone "what is this for?". The answers would not be very helpful if you did not know a bit from a byte, how addressing works, how a computer uses RAM, ROM, etc.

 

[Grands]

This was my last question about the finance side, because I never studied economics at schools, I don't know if in the US at high schools there are lesson of economics.

 

[NTL2009]

This was my last question about the finance side, because I never studied economics at schools, I don't know if in the US at high schools there are lesson of economics.

Not much in US High Schools I think (but that was long ago for me). But there is a wealth of information outside of school - libraries and the Internet. And of course, asking questions on forums like this. But I do think learning from the fundamentals up will answer those questions, and then you could ask for help in specific areas you don't understand.

 

[Grands]

I tried to search on goggle that information, I only found that companies can collect or divid their stock, but I didn't find anything related to how many stock a company has in the first day.

 

[NTL2009]

I tried to search on goggle that information, I only found that companies can collect or divid their stock, but I didn't find anything related to how many stock a company has in the first day.

Google "IPO" or "Initial Public Offering"

 

[Grands]

In the US is quite common for people that doesn't have a major in economics buy stocks?

 

[mfb]

This was my last question about the finance side

In the US is quite common for people that doesn't have a major in economics buy stocks?

I agree with NTL2009, this approach isn't really helpful.

 

[russ_watters]

And who decide how many stocks a company has?

The owners/founders of the company or consultants they pay to decide it.

In the US is quite common for people that doesn't have a major in economics buy stocks?

It's usually between half and 2/3 of Americans who own stocks -- and anyone can buy them. Most people own them in mutual funds though, where other people make the buying decisions.

 

[Grands]

It's usually between half and 2/3 of Americans who own stocks -- and anyone can buy them. Most people own them in mutual funds though, where other people make the buying decisions.

I get it, this kind of activity doesn't help students to pay of their dept with university ?

 

[_PJ_]

Just on the point about Tesla and Musk acquiring the company and 'other engineers' to work on the cars and particularly the electric engine tech - regardless of who these people were or how much Musk was personally getting his hands greasy - the physics and expertise/knowledge of those engineers was necessarily essential in culminating the final product.

Whether or not any other CEO could have made such a success is debatable but even so, I believe there's some inevitability (already plenty of momentum in opinion and ideology as well as definite technological and economic incentive) to things like battery technology, commercial spaceflight and efforts to counter pollution of numerous emissive vehicles. As such, some physics and engineering competence and dedication is absolutely necessary - the deciding factor I think is time and motivation. Musk managed to provide the motivation at the right time in this case.

 

[russ_watters]

I get it, this kind of activity doesn't help students to pay of their dept with university ?

No. For almost everyone, investing is to save money for retirement and mostly starts after paying off big debts.

 

[Grands]

There isn't the risk to lose the money for the retirement?

Anyway I made a question some posts ago and I have no answers.

In this video, at 00:39 he says that he spend most of his time on engineering and design, while we said that on his company he use mainly business skills, because he doesn't have a degree in engineering.


In this other video he says that he wish he was an engineer so that he can create new products, but he didn't do that because he had to create a company, which is strange, because also an engineer can create his own company, an example are Larry Page or Jeff Bezos.

It's like " being a CEO it's boring, it is better to work for the CEO" which is strange, because an engineer that work in a company won't have the fame Musk actually have.
So I can't explain to myself if Elon is laying or if he want to say something that I don't understand.

Also here he says that engineers are better then physicist and scientists.

 

[NTL2009]

There isn't the risk to lose the money for the retirement?

Anyway I made a question some posts ago and I have no answers.

In this video, at 00:39 ... he says that he spend most of his time on engineering and design, while we said that on his company he use mainly business skills, because he doesn't have a degree in engineering. ...

I think in this, and all through this thread, you are looking at things far too narrowly and far too literally. Life is not so cut and dried (thankfully!).

So what if he doesn't have a degree in engineering - he has a degree in Physics which encompasses (and beyond) a lot of the thought processes and fundamentals that engineers use. Engineers learn specifics to their area of study, but those can also be learned by someone who understands Physics ( I worked with an excellent engineer - he had a BS in Physics - he learned the EE specifics on his own, or through added coursework, but never earned an EE degree). If you limit your knowledge to only what was taught to you in school in pursuit of s degree, you will have a very hard time succeeding in anything.

Try Googling all the inventions that were produced by people w/o engineering degrees. I'll wait... But two that come to mind are Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Jobs never earned a degree in anything, Woz only got his degree after Apple had become a success.

In this other video he says that he wish he was an engineer so that he can create new products, but he didn't do that because he had to create a company, which is strange, because also an engineer can create his own company, an example are Larry Page or Jeff Bezos.

Too literal again, IMO. It's a matter of focus, not absolutes.

It's like " being a CEO it's boring, it is better to work for the CEO" which is strange, because an engineer that work in a company won't have the fame Musk actually have.

Take it with a grain of salt. Ever heard "the grass is always greener..."?

.. So I can't explain to myself if Elon is laying or if he want to say something that I don't understand
.
Also here ... he says that engineers are better then physicist and scientists.

Well, he's entitled to his opinion, isn't he? That's all it is. Before listening, I would have expected him to say that engineers are more directly connected to the end product, w/o them the advanced ideas of physicists would not become reality, and would not do anyone much good. But the example he gave was LHC - w/o engineers, they can't have such a machine, and the physicists need it to advance. Heck, the physicists also need to get to work, so are car mechanics 'better' than physicists? It's all a little silly to me.

I don't really agree with his reasoning, it's just one way to view it. Seems circular, engineers wouldn't have their machines w/o the physics that led to things like the transistor. And on and on. Don't overthink it.

 

[Grands]

think in this, and all through this thread, you are looking at things far too narrowly and far too literally.

I get it, but i appreciate so much Elon Musk so for me is important everything he says.
Obviously this doesn't mean that he is right about everything, but for me it's a very important person.

So what if he doesn't have a degree in engineering - he has a degree in Physics which encompasses (and beyond) a lot of the thought processes and fundamentals that engineers use. Engineers learn specifics to their area of study, but those can also be learned by someone who understands Physics ( I worked with an excellent engineer - he had a BS in Physics - he learned the EE specifics on his own, or through added coursework, but never earned an EE degree).

I understand, but you know very well that is hard to obtain a major in Physics, and study physics request a lots of time, especially if someone like this subject and one to study more on himself.
What I'm trying to do is that a major in Physics, in my opinion, doesn't give the possibility of having a lots free time to learn also EE or something else.

But two that come to mind are Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.

Steve Jobs didn't invited nothing in terms of technology he just founded a company, also Larry Ellison doesn't have a degree, and neither him invented something but they never regret this fact like Elon.

Heck, the physicists also need to get to work, so are car mechanics 'better' than physicists? It's all a little silly to me.

I totally agree.

If you limit your knowledge to only what was taught to you in school in pursuit of s degree, you will have a very hard time succeeding in anything.

At high school I didn't have any problem by doing what teachers wants from me, I always paid attention to what they said.
Now I'm realizing that one of my biggest mistake is not trying to learn something by myself, due to the fact that now online is so easy to find books in pdf, thanks man for this hint.

 

[mfb]

The LHC example is quite silly.
You cannot analyze particle collisions without a particle accelerator or without using cosmic rays - yes, obviously. Particle accelerators are tools purpose-built for particle physics in a collaboration of engineers and physicists. Many of the people working on the machines call themselves physicists, doing accelerator physics. The people designing particle detectors typically have "physicist" as job title. In general there is no sharp line between physics and engineering in fundamental science.

 

[russ_watters]

Steve Jobs didn't invited nothing in terms of technology he just founded a company...

While that is naively true, there may be no better example of the "strategic vision" factor than Steve Jobs(maybe Henry Ford). That company *is* Steve Jobs, in corporate form. The Apple management proved that in the 1980s by firing him, then collapsing, then bringing him back to become the largest company in the world, despite an exclusionary culture.

There isn't the risk to lose the money for the retirement?

Yes, but the risk is small and that has to be weighed against the risk of not having enough money to retire if you invest for lower growth.

 

[Grands]

The LHC example is quite silly.
You cannot analyze particle collisions without a particle accelerator or without using cosmic rays - yes, obviously. Particle accelerators are tools purpose-built for particle physics in a collaboration of engineers and physicists. Many of the people working on the machines call themselves physicists, doing accelerator physics. The people designing particle detectors typically have "physicist" as job title. In general there is no sharp line between physics and engineering in fundamental science.

I agree.

While that is naively true, there may be no better example of the "strategic vision" factor than Steve Jobs(maybe Henry Ford). That company *is* Steve Jobs, in corporate form. The Apple management proved that in the 1980s by firing him, then collapsing, then bringing him back to become the largest company in the world, despite an exclusionary culture.

Is still strange for me how Jobs had the ability to create a factor in Cina that produce Apple products, having no competences in the industrial sector.

Yes, but the risk is small and that has to be weighed against the risk of not having enough money to retire if you invest for lower growth.

The US government doesn't care about the money for people retirement?
In Italy we pay a lots of taxes for having this service, 20% of the salary went there.

 

[russ_watters]

Is still strange for me how Jobs had the ability to create a factor in Cina that produce Apple products, having no competences in the industrial sector.

I don't know what you mean by that unless you are still under the impression that the leader of the company has to be able to do everything. I don't know how many times I'll need to say this before it sinks in: you can rent expertise. That's what companies do: when they need to do something new, they hire people with the necessary expertise to do it.

The US government doesn't care about the money for people retirement?
In Italy we pay a lots of taxes for having this service, 20% of the salary went there.

"Care" is an odd word to apply. We have a social security system into which people pay 12.4% of their income and does just a terrible job providing for retirement. My understanding is that Italy's is even worse. So in both cases if you want to have a quality life when you retire, you fund it yourself.

 

[Grands]

I don't know what you mean by that unless you are still under the impression that the leader of the company has to be able to do everything.

A leader of a company don't have to know everything, but I don't think that he have just the idea and other people to everything.
It's sure that Apple needed engineers, lawyers, economists, designers and we all know that a person can't face the legal, the economical and the technical part tougher.
What I want to say is that opening a company require courage, organization ability that are not common, and it's not easy to decide to do it in Cina.

It's like tomorrow I will have in mind a new idea about a car that work with water and I just hire a group on engineer and everything will works, because I pay them even if I don't know how to create a car that work with water.

My understanding is that Italy's is even worse. So in both cases if you want to have a quality life when you retire, you fund it yourself.

Why do you think that?
In my country the payment for the retire is very high ( about 22%), and a private one is more higher, my question was about the US government and I was curios if it ask money from people salary for doing this.

 

[russ_watters]

A leader of a company don't have to know everything, but I don't think that he have just the idea and other people to everything.
It's sure that Apple needed engineers, lawyers, economists, designers and we all know that a person can't face the legal, the economical and the technical part tougher.
What I want to say is that opening a company require courage, organization ability that are not common, and it's not easy to decide to do it in China.

It's not easy, right - that's why they get paid so much money.

It's like tomorrow I will have in mind a new idea about a car that work with water and I just hire a group on engineer and everything will works, because I pay them even if I don't know how to create a car that work with water.

The truly best tech companies create products that are almost possible.

You might want to watch one of the movies about Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg (or a series/documentary on Bill Gates) for some [embellished] idea of how they got their starts and grew their companies.

Why do you think that?
In my country the payment for the retire is very high ( about 22%), and a private one is more higher, my question was about the US government and I was curios if it ask money from people salary for doing this.

We pay 12.8% of our income to fund a similar program.

My understanding (admitedly thin on the details for Italy) is that Italy has had poor economic growth and very high debt recently. Social Security type programs require/rely on growth in order to be able to keep their promised payouts. Slower growth means the programs will soon need to be cut (like in its neighbor, Greece).

 

[Grands]

The truly best tech companies create products that are almost possible.

Yes, but there are cases when they create innovative technology that didn't extend before, like the rockets of SpaceX.

You might want to watch one of the movies about Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg (or a series/documentary on Bill Gates) for some [embellished] idea of how they got their starts and grew their companies.

I saw documentaries, and they don't explain the part of how they created it, movies are more on what they created.
Anyway, I think that Zuckerberg did something that is more "easy" to realize, che needed just a computer and tons of servers, while Jobs needed an empire of workers in Cina, and had to deal with local rules of work, delivery, packaging, a lots of stuff.

My understanding (admitedly thin on the details for Italy) is that Italy has had poor economic growth and very high debt recently. Social Security type programs require/rely on growth in order to be able to keep their promised payouts. Slower growth means the programs will soon need to be cut (like in its neighbor, Greece).

Yes, it exactly what is happening, the problem is not the debt, but the fact that Italy can promise to payback the money, because have no growth.

 

[NTL2009]

...
Anyway, I think that Zuckerberg did something that is more "easy" to realize, che needed just a computer and tons of servers, while Jobs needed an empire of workers in Cina, and had to deal with local rules of work, delivery, packaging, a lots of stuff. ... .

If it was 'easy' because he just needed computers and servers, then just about anybody would have done it. But they didn't. There were other elements that were applied. Again, you look so narrowly on things, I think you will never find the answers. Does the expression "he doesn't see the forest for the trees" translate for you?

And you really need to study history more seriously. Jobs 'merely' contracted for the manufacture of iPhones in China with a world-wide contract manufacturer (FoxConn). Jobs did have a factory designed and built in the US to make the iMac. But what that has to do with just about anything is beyond me.

What's the question?

Yes, it exactly what is happening, the problem is not the debt, but the fact that Italy can promise to payback the money, because have no growth.

Well that is circular. Debt certainly is a problem if you don't have the growth you need to repay it.

 

[Grands]

If it was 'easy' because he just needed computers and servers, then just about anybody would have done it. But they didn't. There were other elements that were applied.

I wanted to say that Apple or Tesla have to take care of workers, need to pay attention to the material they use, and see if those one are not toxic for the people.
The factories have to respect some rules, unless they will be closed.
A factory need very expensive tools, and this tools have to work properly everyday, while Facebook requires a big team and a lots of servers.

Facebook doesn't have to care about material, factories, people that get hurt at work.
I would say that the main problem of Facebook is to ban people that post NSFW stuff on FB, which is not easy, but not difficult as running a company like Apple or Tesla or SpaceX.
This is just my opinion.

 

[mfb]

Facebook doesn't have to care about material, factories, people that get hurt at work.
I would say that the main problem of Facebook is to ban people that post NSFW stuff on FB

Your view is way too simplistic here. Facebook does much more than running servers and banning users.

 

[Grands]

Your view is way too simplistic here. Facebook does much more than running servers and banning users.

It's true, I don't know properly what is behind FB, I just think that is more easy to run this business compared to a manufactory industry

 

[NTL2009]

It's true, I don't know properly what is behind FB, I just think that is more easy to run this business compared to a manufactory industry

OK, but (and no disrespect intended) so?

I really have no idea where you are going with most of your questions and observations. I get the sense (I think I read you are 19) that you are genuinely curious about this stuff, and that's good. But I think a few of us have told you that jumping from question to question w/o digging into the foundation/fundamentals of these areas is just not the best way to learn something.

It's like skipping high school physics and Physics 101, and then asking questions about the formulas in Masters level Physics courses. You need the foundation to understand the more advanced concepts. Focus on the foundations to the questions you are asking, and you will get farther, faster, IMO.

Or, you are just trolling us. I'don't think so, but I'm not 100.00% sure.

 

[Grands]

I really have no idea where you are going with most of your questions and observations. I get the sense (I think I read you are 19) that you are genuinely curious about this stuff, and that's good. But I think a few of us have told you that jumping from question to question w/o digging into the foundation/fundamentals of these areas is just not the best way to learn something.

I'm ok, I just wanted to say my opinion, and I learned interesting thing about Elon Musk and how run the money of a company.