How much should you spend on an engagement ring?

[Ivan Seeking]

"Financial problems" is listed as one of the major causes of divorce. It seems reasonable to assume that young people who make foolishly expensive purchases are destined for financial problems.

 

[Monique]

Again, stick to your own budget and buy what you like. I don't see what's the problem with buying a nice ring, as long as you're not not doing it out of pressure from your environment.

 

[OAQfirst]

Haha. When I was a kid I thought the typical engagement ring hovered around fifty grand.

 

[Evo]

I would say to realistically look at what the financial implications would be and what a sensible amount, based on your current income, would be. Then if after discussing this with her she still insists on spending more, tell her that you are fine with her pitching in the extra amount. You need to find out what means more to her and if she is financially irresponsible, is that going to become a problem down the road.

As Monique says, it's your decision, but you did ask for our opinions.

 

[turbo]

Again, stick to your own budget and buy what you like. I don't see what's the problem with buying a nice ring, as long as you're not not doing it out of pressure from your environment.

Nothing wrong with it. The guy that married the administrative assistant was in the Merchant Marines and he always seemed to be flush with cash. He was gone a lot (a recipe for disaster with that woman) and that was a second marriage for him. I would be really surprised if he spent less than $40,000 on that engagement ring. His fiance knew that I faceted stones, and when I commented on her new bling (how could I NOT notice with her hand waving around?) she took it off and handed it to me. It's not possible to accurately gauge the color of a mounted diamond, but it was very bright and white, and I could just manage to see some tiny inclusions with my 10x Hastings triplet (and yes, I always have one in my pocket). $$$$$$! Pretty good pay for staying married (part time, at least) to somebody for a couple of years.

As for "pressure from the environment" - that was certainly the case in this instance. She told me that she didn't want her boyfriend spending "all that money" on her, but he insisted. Right. I never mentioned the cost of that rock to her - just told her that it was a very high-quality stone. When she hit the road, he probably just dusted off the Vette and went shopping for another trophy female.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Here's the guideline I've been looking for. She does 6 feet, 3 1/2 inches in the high jump and gets a 1.5 carat diamond. Add $100 for the ring and setting I guess. Now just tell us far your girlfriend can jump and we'll do the math.
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/9410602/?MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was amazed to find the difference in price at a good diamond dealer as compared to the typcal retailer. And the fact is that a diamond considered to the lowest quality can look just as good as one having the highest quality. Again, who cares if a jeweler is the only one who can tell the difference? Of course you never want to get into that with the fiance. It can be your little secret.

FL (Flawless) - IF (Internally Flawless)
Flawless Diamonds reveal no flaws on the surface or internally are the rarest and most beautiful gems.

Internally Flawless Diamonds reveal no inclusions and only insignificant blemishes on the surface under 10x magnification.

VVS1 - VVS2 (Very, Very Slightly Included)
Very difficult to see inclusions under 10x magnification. These are excellent quality diamonds.

VS1 - VS2 (Very Slightly Included)
Only looking through a 10X loupe can pinpoint the inclusions in this category and are nearly impossible to see with the naked eye. These are less expensive than the VVS1 or VVS2 grades.

SI1 - SI3 (Slightly Included)
Diamonds with inclusions easily identified under 10x magnification. Finding flaws in this category with the naked eye is difficult. The gems in this category maintain their integrity, depending on the location of the inclusions.

I1 - I3 (Included)
Diamonds with inclusions which may or may not be easily seen by the naked eye. The flaws on the stones in this category will have some effect on the brilliance of your diamond.

http://www.jewelbasket.com/aboutdiamonds.html

The first time I bought some somewhat expensive diamond earrings for Tsu, I remember that my aunt was jealous because she too got diamond earrings for Christmas, but Tsu's were significantly larger. My uncle and I compared notes and I had actually paid less than he did. On paper it was crystal clear - my aunt's diamonds were higher quality.

 

[turbo]

Oh, yeah. Good color and freedom from inclusions can drive the price of diamonds WAY up. Step up a grade in either classification and watch the prices soar. Again, though, the metric is defined by what deBeers will allow on the market. As long as they throttle back quality, stone size, and total weight of the parcels they release to the cutters, they can control the retail prices. I hope and pray that there are some really high-producing Kimberlite pipes discovered and exploited in the next few years. The only way that deBeers can keep a strangle-hold on the industry is if they buy ALL (or at least the vast majority of) commercially-mined diamonds. I'd love to see what would happen to their monopoly if a couple of new large mines came on-line and they couldn't afford to buy up all the gem-quality rough.

 

[Danger]

I'd love to see what would happen to their monopoly if a couple of new large mines came on-line and they couldn't afford to buy up all the gem-quality rough.

Three cheers for northern Canada. It looks pretty promising.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh, yeah. Good color and freedom from inclusions can drive the price of diamonds WAY up. Step up a grade in either classification and watch the prices soar.

From my point of view, you don't want to sacrifice on color too much. I could tell the difference there.

IIRC and looking at the scale, anything above G - the bottom end of nearly colorless - was acceptable to my eye.

 

[Evo]

I buy smaller, higher quality diamonds. I worked for a jewelry store for awhile and learned a lot. We sold upper end jewelry. And I do have a jeweler's loop.

 

[turbo]

From my point of view, you don't want to sacrifice on color too much. I could tell the difference there.

IIRC and looking at the scale, anything above G - the bottom end of nearly colorless - was acceptable to my eye.

Certainly. And if you're going to mount the stone in a yellow-gold setting, the color of that setting is going to overpower the color of the stone so that H and I are perfectly acceptable.

A good friend of mine had come into some money years back and he got some "advice" from another friend who is a financial advisor. I hope that he never followed it. The "advice" was to buy certified 1-ct diamonds, D-color, FL. I tried to explain that deBeers could destroy his investment at any time, and though I'm not a fan of precious metals, there is no similar monopoly in Platinum, Gold, and Silver, so if he wanted tangible hard assets, he'd be safer there. He responded by sending me a nice book on diamond investing, so I just let it go.

EDIT: The book is "The Diamond Book: A Practical Guide for Successful Investing" by Freedman. Not surprisingly, the author was president of the Gemstone Trading Corporation, a company that derived its profits from "helping" investors get into diamonds.

 

[Danger]

I do have a jeweler's loop.

Is that for lassoing stray stones, or do you mean a loupe?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I buy smaller, higher quality diamonds. I worked for a jewelry store for awhile and learned a lot. We sold upper end jewelry. And I do have a jeweler's loop.

Yes dear, but we are talking about what a man buys here.

As I said, you don't want to get the fiance involved in this discussion.

 

[Evo]

Yes dear, but we are talking about what a man buys here.

As I said, you don't want to get the fiance involved in this discussion.

I had to stop my ex from buying me jewelry, the prettier the salesgirl was, the more hideous the jewelry.

 

[turbo]

I had to stop my ex from buying me jewelry, the prettier the salesgirl was, the more hideous the jewelry.

The salesgirls in the nearest large jewelry store were hired for their looks, as was the sales manager. I took a couple of flats of faceted stones there to see if they would start stocking my stones, and the sales manager turned up her nose at them. I took the stones to a really high-end old jewelry store in the state capital and the owner practically cleaned me out at some very fair prices. Years later, I was approached by the owner of the first store to help him buy an investment-grade English shotgun and I told him that I was pretty disappointed that his store wouldn't buy from a local faceter when the old gent that did his custom-castings and mountings was recommending me to others. Then when I told him that I sold all my output to the old high-end store, he went ballistic. I imagine that his sales manager got her butt chewed out when he got back to the store. It doesn't pay to disrespect a guy who shows up in flannel and jeans when he's offering top-quality calibrated stones.

 

[Danger]

Poetic justice, Turbo. I sort of feel for the old guy, but I hope that he fired that *****'s *** and got back on good terms with you.

 

[WhoWee]

The rule of thumb used to be 1 month's salary.

I personally think buying an expensive engagement ring is ridiculous. I used a small diamond that was in my mother's original engagement ring and had it set in a plain brushed gold band, I paid for the rings myself, cost me about $100.

It's really a personal matter, but it is foolish, IMO, to spend so much when you are young and just getting started. If she wants something big and flashy, get her a cubic zirconia. If she takes it to a jewelry store and has it tested, I would run away.

Listen to Evo.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I wonder if there is any correlation between the size of the diamond a women insists on and how soon a couple will divorce. The bigger, the sooner?

I knew a young lass who dumped finace #1 when his diamond was too small, and immediately took up with fiance #2. To my mind, finace #1 really got his moneys worth out of that diamond. (Like the old joke "Why is divorce so expensive? Because it's worth it!")

 

[mheslep]

...My wife chose her ring for herself and then I bought it.

Same here Jimmy.

Graven: Consider finding yourself a small, private jeweller with whom you can trust and build a relationship. You can save yourself 30% easily this way. If the Mrs to be has her eye on a particular setting at a name store, get a catalog/picture as any good private jeweller can duplicate it with high accuracy. Even better, if you have the good eye, the private jeweller can help you design the ring and the statement 'I had designed it for you' will go a long, long way.

 

[~christina~]

I don't mind inclusions in a ring, as many cheaper rings have them. The stones are flawed, but this is only visible if you hold it up to your eye and scrutinize them. (they can be large stones, but they have some cracks etc.)

 

[Evo]

A small jeweler probably can't buy diamonds very cheap, although you might get them to give you a discount, it might still cost you more than buying from a larger jeweler. Remember to compare identical diamonds. Shop around.

Be careful buying from a pawn shop since you have no idea what you are buying. When I worked at the jewelry store a couple came in with they thought was a great find and wanted an opinion. It wasn't even a diamond, (we had diamond testers).

 

[Evo]

I don't mind inclusions in a ring, as many cheaper rings have them. The stones are flawed, but this is only visible if you hold it up to your eye and scrutinize them. (they can be large stones, but they have some cracks etc.)

Nooooo! Good quality stones are worth what you pay and will hold their value better. Junk is junk.

 

[elect_eng]

Almost every girl I ask says that you should spend 2 months salary, but most would prefer 3.

Almost every guy I ask says that they would prefer to only spend 1 month to 6 weeks salary MAX.

If you are to have a good marriage, you should want to give her a ring worth 6 months salary, and she should want a ring worth only 1 month salary. If you start with this good foundation, then anything in the 1-6 month range will be fine.

Why these numbers? You don't want to spend so much that your wife becomes a likely target for robbery, and you don't want to spend so little that you make her feel unimportant and unappreciated.

 

[misgfool]

Nooooo! Good quality stones are worth what you pay and will hold their value better. Junk is junk.

Skip the stone. Hasn't anyone watched the LOTR? The ring that controlled all the rings was the simplest of them all.

 

[binzing]

To the OP and the original question.

25 cents.

 

[Monique]

I don't mind inclusions in a ring, as many cheaper rings have them. The stones are flawed, but this is only visible if you hold it up to your eye and scrutinize them. (they can be large stones, but they have some cracks etc.)

.. And then you bump it into something and a piece chips off..

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A small jeweler probably can't buy diamonds very cheap, although you might get them to give you a discount, it might still cost you more than buying from a larger jeweler. Remember to compare identical diamonds. Shop around.

Yes, and ideally you go to a place where you can view many diamonds of any grade. Pick the ring and stone style, and then match the desired stone at a good dealer and have it set. I found that one can pay 30-50% of what you would pay at a small store or mall. It is simple economics. You want a place that looks like Fort Knox. You may even be escorted into a vault.

At the place that I bought from in LA, you could cite the desired color and clarity and see many dozens of stones having those specs. Most retail jewelers offer very few options, but they are overpriced.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Something else: From my point of view, it is silly to treat an engagement ring as a financial investment. The chances are that you will never sell the ring. What's more, in a few years hardly anyone will ever look at it again. They certainly won't be scrutinizing it as a dealer would. It will just be a shiney thing on your wife's finger.

Also, buying above VS1 or 2 is foolish unless you are investing. See for yourself [you do want a selection as there may be an occasional clunker, and some do look better than others]. But if you take your time and pick a good one, quality beyond that is purely academic and in your head. Trust me, you won't notice the difference, but size does matter.

Add it to your homeowners insurance policy [you want to anyway]. On the ever so remote chance that it chips or is damaged, file a claim and buy a new stone.

 

[elect_eng]

It will just be a shiney thing on your wife's finger.

This is the male perspective. The female perspective is totally different. My wife still looks at her ring even after many years. She thinks of the memory of when I gave it too her. The fact that I spent much more money than I could afford at the time makes it even more special to her because it was a sacrifice. Now I see that I made the right decision. We are older and that amount of money is not so important, and the ring still has value that will be recovered by our children someday.

To a woman, it's not just a shiny thing, it's the message that you sent to tell her how much you valued her. That message will be replayed each and every day for the rest of her life. It's not the actual value of the ring that's important, it's the fact that, at the time you gave it to her, you did the best you could to send the right message.

 

[turbo]

.. And then you bump it into something and a piece chips off..

The diamond doesn't have to be flawed for that to happen. Diamond cutters orient the stone to maximize weight and because of this the stones may have their easiest cleavage plane located such that an incidental tap against a hard object can cause the diamond to chip. Some types of stones (such as topaz) have such easy-to-shear cleavage planes that faceting them and mounting them properly can be a challenge. For toughness and chip-resistance in an everyday-wear ring, I would suggest garnet.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is the male perspective. The female perspective is totally different. My wife still looks at her ring even after many years. She thinks of the memory of when I gave it too her. The fact that I spent much more money than I could afford at the time makes it even more special to her because it was a sacrifice. Now I see that I made the right decision. We are older and that amount of money is not so important, and the ring still has value that will be recovered by our children someday.

To a woman, it's not just a shiny thing, it's the message that you sent to tell her how much you valued her. That message will be replayed each and every day for the rest of her life. It's not the actual value of the ring that's important, it's the fact that, at the time you gave it to her, you did the best you could to send the right message.

Sure, but the falacy implicitly promoted is that somehow that personal value depends on whether the stone is VVS2 or VS2.

The point that I was making was that you want to spend your money on size, not the finest quality.

 

[ephedyn]

Off-topic: turbo-1, just wondering, since I do share your point of view that diamonds are overpriced, what do you think of alexandrite? Is it worth the price?

 

[Monique]

For toughness and chip-resistance in an everyday-wear ring, I would suggest garnet.

That's something to keep in mind, it would need to resist the environment of a wet lab. Do you have suggestions on how to clean gem stones such as topaz, aquamarine and amethyst? I clean diamonds in hot soapy water with added ammonia, but I'm not sure whether that could be harmful for other stones (I generally just use soapy water for those).

 

[Evo]

This is the male perspective. The female perspective is totally different. My wife still looks at her ring even after many years. She thinks of the memory of when I gave it too her. The fact that I spent much more money than I could afford at the time makes it even more special to her because it was a sacrifice. Now I see that I made the right decision. We are older and that amount of money is not so important, and the ring still has value that will be recovered by our children someday.

To a woman, it's not just a shiny thing, it's the message that you sent to tell her how much you valued her. That message will be replayed each and every day for the rest of her life. It's not the actual value of the ring that's important, it's the fact that, at the time you gave it to her, you did the best you could to send the right message.

That's very romantic. I, however, couldn't care less about an engagement ring. I bought my own and used a diamond my mother gave me, a tiny one, but it was free. I also refused to have a wedding and instead had my parents buy me a new car, put a down payment on a new house and furnish it.

Basically I guess it's whatever you value and what makes you happy. I was very happy with my car and house.

 

[turbo]

That's something to keep in mind, it would need to resist the environment of a wet lab. Do you have suggestions on how to clean gem stones such as topaz, aquamarine and amethyst? I clean diamonds in hot soapy water with added ammonia, but I'm not sure whether that could be harmful for other stones (I generally just use soapy water for those).

The best solution to clean stones and jewelry (and glassware) is a 50:50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and water. They are both pretty good solvents and if you team them up, they are very effective. Plus there is no residue. Any kind of detergent or soap will leave fatty acids that gather dirt. That is the only lens-cleaner that I used in my optician's lab.

 

[turbo]

Off-topic: turbo-1, just wondering, since I do share your point of view that diamonds are overpriced, what do you think of alexandrite? Is it worth the price?

Alexandrite IS very rare, and it is far more likely to retain its value than diamonds. Another good choice is Tsavorite - a brilliant green garnet from Tsavo National Park in Kenya. It is rarely found in >ct sizes, it is far more attractive than emerald, and it is very tough for everyday wear, as most garnets are. These are niche stones, but they are probably never going to go down in value.

Edit: If you're considering buying Alexandrite, you'll want to choose your seller very carefully. There is a lot of synthetic stuff on the market, and it's easy to get fooled. You'd probably want to insist on a money-back guarantee of authenticity and then pay for an independent appraisal.

 

[physics girl phd]

...size does matter.

I think size does matter... but in my case, I preferred a smaller stone. I think large stones are gaudy and would get in the way of my daily activities. My husband went for a higher-quality smaller stone that is well-cut, in a very traditional simple setting, so it has an element of modesty and humility. It still certainly has surprising moments, like when it catches the sunlight and casts colors about the car when I'm driving.

Large size matters elsewhere in my marriage!

If you're looking at alternative stones, I did have some friends that choose to go rock-hunting on their own for a stone (they chose turquoise, which she wanted because of her Hispanic heritage). That made the experience pretty special to them, although they certainly had a difficult time finding someone to polish and set the stone.

 

[turbo]

If you're looking at alternative stones, I did have some friends that choose to go rock-hunting on their own for a stone (they chose turquoise, which she wanted because of her Hispanic heritage). That made the experience pretty special to them, although they certainly had a difficult time finding someone to polish and set the stone.

I cut a very nice gemmy sunstone for a young couple to use in their engagement ring. Non-traditional, for sure, but the coppery inclusions were pretty and they had found the stone themselves and didn't know how to get it cut. I met up with them in a rock-shop in the off-season in Provincetown.

 

[elect_eng]

Basically I guess it's whatever you value and what makes you happy.

Words of wisdom for sure! I value my wife and she makes me happy.

 

[Evo]

Words of wisdom for sure! I value my wife and she makes me happy.

Awww, that's so sweet!

 

[Monique]

The best solution to clean stones and jewelry (and glassware) is a 50:50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and water. They are both pretty good solvents and if you team them up, they are very effective. Plus there is no residue. Any kind of detergent or soap will leave fatty acids that gather dirt. That is the only lens-cleaner that I used in my optician's lab.

:!) Thanks for the advice, it worked like magic, much better than detergent and ammonia (a lot less smelly).
Everything is shining to the max again, someone even thought I had a new ring

 

[turbo]

:!) Thanks for the advice, it worked like magic, much better than detergent and ammonia (a lot less smelly).
Everything is shining to the max again, someone even thought I had a new ring

Congratulations! If you have some hard-to-remove soap scum or other residue between the mount and the stone, you can gently dislodge it with a wooden toothpick, then give it another spray of the water and alcohol. When my cousin's daughter and her husband-to-be dropped in for a BBQ, she wanted to show me her ring, and I "borrowed" it for a brief cleaning session. When I brought it back out onto the sunny deck and gave it to her, she squealed! Most properly-cut diamonds are pretty flashy IF they are clean. It doesn't take much soap scum or skin-lotion residue to dull them to the point that they are absolutely lifeless.

 

[Monique]

I'm pretty vigilant with keeping my jewelry clean, I always take my ring off when washing my hands (that was after I was confronted with a lot off build-up material in the mount). Lately I was just too busy to spend a whole evening cleaning everything, but a quick soak in IPA already released a lot of material.

 

[turbo]

The 50:50 mix of water and isopropyl is the key - both are solvents in their own right, and they each can help loosen a range of crud. I keep the mix in a commercial-grade spray bottle with a trigger and adjustable nozzle. Energetic spraying can remove a LOT from a tight setting. This stuff is also tops for cleaning windows and mirrors, and they stay much cleaner than if you used Windex or other glass-cleaners.

 

[ViewsofMars]

Ggravenewworld (OP), I sincerely would hope that the surprise and pleasure she will derive is the “Will you marry me?” Remembering that an engagement ring is merely a memento of that grand event if she says, “Yes!” Wishing you the very best in life.

 

[Kurret]

Why shouldn't the woman give the man a ring? How can any girl say that they want a man to spend 3 month salary on a ring to her, if they don't do the same?

 

[LowlyPion]

Why shouldn't the woman give the man a ring? How can any girl say that they want a man to spend 3 month salary on a ring to her, if they don't do the same?

I'm sure that a nose ring wouldn't be out of the question. But 3 month's salary seems a little steep for that, when they could use what's left over for more shoes.

 

[Saladsamurai]

Woman's best friend = Diamond
Man's best friend = Dog

WTF?

 

[mcknia07]

My brother just got done buying a ring for his girlfriend, soon to be fiance. He spent somewhere near $2,000 for the one he liked. He was the one that picked it out even. But if you want quality, you have to pay the price. But his is a 3/4 k so, it's kinda a big rock for a engagement ring. The ring shop has always been very nice to our family, it's the only place we will buy from.