How Much Thermal Energy is Required for a Four Month Space Mission?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermal energy requirements for a hypothetical four-month space mission, focusing on the heat produced by crew members and the feasibility of managing that heat through various energy storage methods. The conversation touches on thermodynamic principles and the efficiency of converting thermal energy to electrical energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the total heat produced by crew members can be calculated based on caloric intake, leading to a significant requirement for energy storage in the form of batteries for a four-month mission.
  • Another participant challenges this idea by referencing the second principle of thermodynamics, questioning the efficiency of converting thermal energy to work without a temperature gradient.
  • A subsequent reply suggests that if the internal temperature of the spacecraft is maintained at 300 Kelvin, the lower temperature reservoir could be around three Kelvin, which raises questions about the practicality of this setup.
  • Another participant speculates on the technical feasibility of the proposed energy management system, questioning whether it is indeed doable.
  • One participant discusses the Carnot limit on thermal efficiency, suggesting that a high efficiency could mean only a fraction of the heat needs to be absorbed for the journey, while also mentioning the possibility of venting the heat afterwards.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of the proposed thermal energy management system and the implications of thermodynamic principles. There is no consensus on the practicality or efficiency of the methods discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions regarding temperature gradients and energy storage methods, but these assumptions remain unresolved and depend on specific conditions that are not fully explored in the discussion.

CIm
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Hello! I was wondering if someone could take a look at this idea and tell me if there is something wrong with it:

In attempting to shut down every part of a hypothetical spacecraft except some sort of highly insulated crew pod, the total amount of heat produced over a period of time is equal to the total calories consumed minus any useful mechanical work performed. If a person consumes an average of 2400 kilocalories per day, the average heat produced is 100 kilocalories per hour or 116 watts.

Ignoring all other assumptions, if you were to convert that heat buildup to electrical storage, you get 20 crew x 1 day, 55.68 kilowatts. A kilogram of Li-ion stores 128 Wh[1], so you need 435 kilograms to store the heat energy of the crew for the day. Multiply that by 120 days and you get a little over sixty tons of Li-ion batteries required for a four month journey, easy to fit in on a ten thousand ton ship. With lithium thionyl chloride, used in extremely hazardous or critical applications such as space flight and deep sea diving, you get a little over 10 tons needed.

Now you probably won't get all of the thermal energy, but using new technological advances [2] and say dunking the lot in water to slowly absorb the rest for four months, could you conceivably keep a vessel of this sort at or as near to ambient as makes no odds?

[1]http://www.allaboutbatteries.com/Battery-Energy.html"
[2]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100930154610.htm"
 
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Uhm seems like you are ignoring the second principle of thermodynamics. To convert thermal energy to work you need to reservoirs at different temperatures. A lower ratio between the lesser temperature and the upper temperaturemakes the efficiency of you thermal engine higher. Assuming you have an internal temperature equal to 300 Kelvin, what do you plan the lower temperature resorvoir to be?
 
Petr Mugver said:
Assuming you have an internal temperature equal to 300 Kelvin, what do you plan the lower temperature resorvoir to be?
Since the idea is to keep the ship, except the small crew pod, which is inside the ship, at ambient space temperature, it would be around three kelvin. The apparatus to convert the thermal energy to electrical energy and the storage medium would be at the ambient ship temperature, and inside the ship as well.
 
So it should be technically doable?
 
Petr Mugver said:
A lower ratio between the lesser temperature and the upper temperaturemakes the efficiency of you thermal engine higher.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the Carnot limit on thermal efficiency is

2c38c2bf9b428765f846f836e7a81786.png


So the maximum possible efficiency would by 99% in this case, so you'd only need to absorb around 60 kilowatts of heat for the entire journey? Note that you could vent it afterwards, its just being stored long enough to get there.
 

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