How poor will I be as a scientist?

[Delong]

I am thinking of going into Graduate School for science something related to mathematical ecology. I don't like engineering but I really like science and math. But I'm afraid I will be stupid and poor if I get a Phd and go into academia. I do want to use science to accomplish something in the real world but I really don't like technology or medicine. I'm kind of interested in using math and physics to solve problems in biology, specifically evolutionary biology and ecosystem ecology. I'm interested in using this information to solve different health and sustainability issues for the growing world, specifically sustainability. I'm interested in understanding how ecosystems work and how apply that information to sustainability. I'm also interested in educating the public about nature, health, and sustainability but I suspect I can do that from the side. I'm just wondering how I can do this. Can I just do this from academia or do I have to be hired by the something outside? And will I be stinking poor?

 

[fss]

Those that enjoy their work are never poor.

 

[Delong]

Those that enjoy their work are never poor.

 

[Pengwuino]

Those that enjoy their work are never poor.

I hate these nonsense statements.

You're not going to be paid minimum wage, but you're not going to have a second home in Switzerland most likely. Personally, I feel a person's financial well-being all comes down to their own financial know-how and choices.

 

[Artus]

Biomathematics is mostly Academy. Maybe some Government labs like LANL would be the ideal workplace but that's it. I have no idea if EPA works that kind of projects.

 

[fss]

I hate these nonsense statements.

Because you don't understand them? Or because your lifestyle choices put a strain on your finances? Or because you aren't happy with your work?

 

[DR13]

Because you don't understand them? Or because your lifestyle choices put a strain on your finances? Or because you aren't happy with your work?

It's not a bad thing to want to be happy AND well off financially. It is important to be able to provide a good life for one's family. The statistics of socioeconomic status vs success are clear.

 

[Pengwuino]

Because you don't understand them? Or because your lifestyle choices put a strain on your finances? Or because you aren't happy with your work?

I don't like them because it's not being honest with the people who ask those kinda questions. Many people can see that as a nice way of saying "yah you're going to be eating at soup kitchens" when in fact, that's not the case. It may even scare people off. The reality of the situation is that your work probably will be of little comfort if you have a family to support and bills to pay and such and are unable to.

 

[elfboy]

As a scientist you'll earn more then most other career choices. The liberal arts tend to pay the worst

 

[Delong]

Perhaps I'm too young to decide for sure exactly I want to do. I just have general ideas right now. My main concern was that I wouldn't be drastically poor if I went to Graduate School and became a scientist instead of engineering or medicine. But my college professors aren't starving and they seem to be leading rather comfortable lives. I think I will be content with such a route then.

 

[nobelium102]

dude don't worry about other people, as long as it isn't obscure job and hated by everypeople
it is what you want to do
I am going into physics/astrophysics/cosmology and the job prospect isn't as good either

if you don't like engineering or meds may you should think about education?
like teaching as professors? try your best and give it a shot

 

[ParticleGrl]

But my college professors aren't starving and they seem to be leading rather comfortable lives. I think I will be content with such a route then.

Keep in mind that college professors are a minority among people who get phds- most will never get that tenure track academic job. Instead of looking at the professors, talk to the postdocs, and the adjuncts and other non-tenure track profs.

Looking at a professor and saying "I wouldn't mind being a scientist" is sort of like looking at a rock star and saying "I wouldn't mind being a musician."

 

[mayonaise]

... I do want to use science to accomplish something in the real world but I really don't like technology or medicine...

I think, to accomplish something in "the real world", you have to go work in the real world instead of academia. Why I don't think academia is a part of the real world is that the only position that allows you to stay in academia is a tenured position, but what the tenure does is shielding you (somewhat) from the ups and downs of the real world so that you can research something that has no present economic value (but may be interesting to you and/or important in the long run).

Also, in order for science to become something "real", as in having direct impact, you'll need to turn it into something "real". That, to me, is what engineering is.

I would consider A-Bombs and Google to have used science to accomplish something in the real world, but those were not done in academia and there were huge amounts of engineering involved.

 

[Delong]

"Also, in order for science to become something "real", as in having direct impact, you'll need to turn it into something "real". That, to me, is what engineering is."

Ok whether or not I want to make an impact in the real world the fact is I'm not an engineer. I'm a science major, biochemistry to be exact and trying to take some math and physics classes on the side. I've looked at med school and engineering very early on in college and quickly realized I wouldn't be satisfied in either. I really just wanted to understand. I hated rushing to make something happen. The question is, can I still make a valuable contribution as a scientist and how? I looked at some of the jobs on the EPA and many of them require scientists.
http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/search.aspx?brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&jbf574=EP00"I suppose if I do become a scientist I can work in a research position like that. Since I'm interested in environmental health I think I would be satisfied with that route. It seems like I am still helping the world in a real way but from the side of science. And from the looks of it I wouldn't be really poor. But I don't have a good sense of money anyway.


"Keep in mind that college professors are a minority among people who get phds- most will never get that tenure track academic job. Instead of looking at the professors, talk to the postdocs, and the adjuncts and other non-tenure track profs. "

Ok

"if you don't like engineering or meds may you should think about education?
like teaching as professors? try your best and give it a shot "
I'm not really excited about teaching either. I want to accomplish something in the real world. I just hope I can do so as a scientist. I read somewhere that a lot of scientists work on application eventually anyway. Ultimately I want to help out something with sustainability. I guess I will just do my own research.

 

[Pengwuino]

Perhaps I'm too young to decide for sure exactly I want to do. I just have general ideas right now. My main concern was that I wouldn't be drastically poor if I went to Graduate School and became a scientist instead of engineering or medicine. But my college professors aren't starving and they seem to be leading rather comfortable lives. I think I will be content with such a route then.

Remember, you're comparing with a couple of the highest paying career fields there are. Just because one isn't one of the top paid people doesn't mean you're poor :P

 

[twofish-quant]

Remember, you're comparing with a couple of the highest paying career fields there are. Just because one isn't one of the top paid people doesn't mean you're poor :P

Also don't look just at income. If you are making $150K, but you are spending $175K and have $200K in debt, you are in much, much worse shape than someone that is making $30K + zero debt.

One good thing about physics graduate school is that you are +$15K each year rather than -$15K.

 

[twofish-quant]

Perhaps I'm too young to decide for sure exactly I want to do. I just have general ideas right now. My main concern was that I wouldn't be drastically poor if I went to Graduate School and became a scientist instead of engineering or medicine.

For physics it's rather unlikely. No one I know that has gone into physics is particularly poor. There is a chance that there will be an economic collapse, but in that situation, engineering and medicine won't help you.

Also, doctors and lawyers leave graduate schools with massive debt. Physicists don't, and that makes a *big* difference. One reason that physicists have diverse careers is that they aren't forced to do the same thing.

 

[Pengwuino]

Also don't look just at income. If you are making $150K, but you are spending $175K and have $200K in debt, you are in much, much worse shape than someone that is making $30K + zero debt.

One good thing about physics graduate school is that you are +$15K each year rather than -$15K.

Exactly. Who really gets into a lot of debt getting their PhD in science? and who DOESN'T get into debt as a medical or law student?

 

[twofish-quant]

Keep in mind that college professors are a minority among people who get phds- most will never get that tenure track academic job. Instead of looking at the professors, talk to the postdocs, and the adjuncts and other non-tenure track profs.

Also talk to people that are have gone into industry or finance.

 

[twofish-quant]

Perhaps I'm too young to decide for sure exactly I want to do. I just have general ideas right now.

I'm forty-one and I still haven't decided exactly what I want to do, and I just have a few general ideas.

 

[Delong]

"Also, doctors and lawyers leave graduate schools with massive debt. Physicists don't, and that makes a *big* difference. One reason that physicists have diverse careers is that they aren't forced to do the same thing. "

Hee I'm so glad I chose not to go into medicine.

"Remember, you're comparing with a couple of the highest paying career fields there are. Just because one isn't one of the top paid people doesn't mean you're poor :P "
That's very true.

"Also talk to people that are have gone into industry or finance."
ok

Thanks everyone.