How to Derive a Closed Form for a Double Sum with Stochastic Variables?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a closed form for a double sum involving stochastic variables, specifically Gaussian-distributed variables. Participants explore the implications of these stochastic elements on the summation and its mathematical representation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a double sum equation involving cosine and sine terms, with one variable drawn from a Gaussian distribution.
  • Another participant questions the definition of the variable ##u_i## as a function of the index ##i##.
  • A clarification is provided that the values of ##u_i## are random samples from the Gaussian distribution specified in the equation.
  • One participant proposes an approximation of the formula under the assumption that the average of the sine function is zero, suggesting a simplified expression for large ##N_i##.
  • There is speculation about the physical context of the problem, with one participant suggesting it relates to molecular velocities and another confirming that the parameters relate to motion rather than temperature.
  • A later reply elaborates that the equation is related to likelihood and involves separating real and imaginary parts for better function representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definition and role of the variable ##u_i##, and there is no consensus on the closed form of the double sum. Multiple interpretations and approaches to the problem are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note assumptions about averages and the behavior of stochastic variables, but these assumptions remain unresolved. The discussion includes references to specific mathematical expressions and approximations that may depend on the context of the problem.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in mathematical modeling involving stochastic processes, particularly in physics or engineering contexts where double sums and Gaussian distributions are relevant.

tworitdash
Messages
104
Reaction score
25
I have a equation with a double sum. However, one of the variables in one of the sums comes from a stochastic distribution (Gaussian to be specific). How can I get a closed form equivalent of this expression? The U and Tare constants in the equation.

$$ \sum_{k = 0}^{N_k-1} \bigg [ \big[ \sum_{i}^{N_i} \cos(\frac{4\pi}{\lambda} u_i k T) - \cos(\frac{4\pi}{\lambda} U k T) \big]^2 + \big[ \sum_{i = 1}^{N_i} \sin(\frac{4\pi}{\lambda} u_i k T) - \sin(\frac{4\pi}{\lambda} U k T) \big]^2 \bigg]$$

$$ u_i \thicksim \mathcal{N}(\mu_{u}, \sigma_{u}) $$
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
I do not see what is ##u_i## as a function of number i.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
I do not see what is ##u_i## as a function of number i.
The values of ##u_i## come from a Gaussian Distribution I explain in the second equation. It is a random sample drawn from the same distribution.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: anuttarasammyak
Expecting that average including sin is zero, the formula would become
N_i^2 \sum_k <\cos u, k>^2 - 2N_i \sum_k <\cos u,k> (\cos U,k)+ N_k
approximately for large N_i under random sampling for Gaussian distribution where
##<\cos u, k> ## is average of the cos u function given for i samplings with given constant k.
with ##<sin, k>=0##
 
Wondering what sort of problem gave you this monster sums. Let me guess something about the velocities of molecules of a gas at temperature T and internal energy U?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: tworitdash
Delta2 said:
Wondering what sort of problem gave you this monster sums. Let me guess something about the velocities of molecules of a gas at temperature T and internal energy U?
You almost got it. These are particle velocities #u_i#, but the other parameters are related to motion rather than temperature. #T# is the time step, #k# is the time index. This is sort of a likelihood (DFT) equation where the cyclic velocity (frequency) is #U#. It actually comes from a complex exponential expression, where I have separated the real and the imaginary parts (cos and sin) to have a better function for likelihood. #N_i# are the number of particles and #N_k# are the number of time steps.
 
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: Delta2

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K