How to describe and discuss different solid matter states?

[symbolipoint]

TL;DR Summary

Not sure the precise terminology to discuss different solid matter states, and also not sure if this is generally subject of mechanical or chemical engineering.

The possible forms of solids can be more than just amorphous solids and crystalline solids. I tried a look at a couple of wikipedia articles and one of them showed descriptions of Plasticity, elastic, and Viscoelasticity, but those are not enough. I can only think to give some real world examples of solid matter and wonder if someone knows the correct terms to use, as in any discussion of these or other solid matter.

A homogenous organic mixture in a solid form holds its shape very well, but if you push hard on it, it will deform and remain with that deformation, permanently. Also, if scraped with a knife or chisel, a curved piece of this scraping is removed. This organic solid can also easily be cut with a knife.

A homogenous organic mixture in solid form holds its shape very well, and if you try to scoop from it, not much happens; and if you try to scrape from it, then brittle flakes from as the scrapings. This organic solid, if try to cut with a knife will only pop off chunks not with any smooth movement through the material.

This next one, I have no clear idea how to say - a homogenous mixture of solids and liquids and it holds its shape but does not resist any attempt at deforming upon any mechanical force, and once done so, does not continue to hold any sharp indent of this action.

Should I try to give more information on these examples? Enough are they to identify the correct terms to represent them?

 

[Tom.G]

I can name 3 distinct material that match your descriptions, which gives you a sampling of ONE. Not very useful yet, get a few hundred more.

You may also want to sort your responses by age, field of experience, country of residence, size of vocabulary, societal class, similarity with your target audience, etc., etc., etc.

Good Luck.

p.s. what the heck is the purpose?

 

[symbolipoint]

I can name 3 distinct material that match your descriptions, which gives you a sampling of ONE. Not very useful yet, get a few hundred more.

You may also want to sort your responses by age, field of experience, country of residence, size of vocabulary, societal class, similarity with your target audience, etc., etc., etc.

Good Luck.

p.s. what the heck is the purpose?

Purpose is just as I described: How to discuss solids according to commonly observed and commonly experienced behaviors of them. English, standard English would be the language, in well developed countries. The specific examples for the descriptions of the solids examples would be these in the order I described them in post #1:

1. A very firm or soft soap
2. A bar soap/ bath soap
3. A cosmetic formulation including some soaps which one might call as a "cream". In some further examples, this might be called a soft paste.

 

[Tom.G]

I came up with:
Peanut Brittle
<don't remember for sure, may have been an Ice Cube, but that doesn't meet 'organic'>
Jello

Somehow trying to classify/describe the universe of 'things' using only 3 or 4 characteristics seems, uhmm..., self defeating.

 

[symbolipoint]

I came up with:
Peanut Brittle
<don't remember for sure, may have been an Ice Cube, but that doesn't meet 'organic'>
Jello

Somehow trying to classify/describe the universe of 'things' using only 3 or 4 characteristics seems, uhmm..., self defeating.

The desire is to have precise terminology for the mechanical characteristics of many kinds of or certain kinds of (mostly) solids.

 

[Bystander]

is to have precise terminology

"...precise terminology...?" These are "mixtures, suspensions, emulsions, blends, of powders in a wide variety of aggregation/s of forms that can only loosely be called solids, depending on time scale/shear rate/s;" what is your intended audience?

 

[Astronuc]

One could mention metal alloys, which can be complicated, given solid solution vs dispersion-strengthened, or single crystal vs poly-crystalline alloys.

I once read a book about different states of matter, which went beyond the traditional solid, liquid and gas, to look at colloids. One example was that of quick clay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_clay

Quick clay is found only in countries close to the north pole, such as Russia; Canada; Norway; Sweden; and Finland; and in Alaska, United States; since they were glaciated during the Pleistocene epoch. . . .

Quick clay has been the underlying cause of many deadly landslides. In Canada alone, it has been associated with more than 250 mapped landslides. Some of these are ancient, and may have been triggered by earthquakes.

Solids can be differentiated into metal and alloys, intermetallics, ceramics, cermets and a variety of organics plastics, rubbers, . . . . , not to mention carbon products, e.g., diamond, graphene, pyrolytic carbon, graphite, . . . .

Even in alloy steels, one finds duplex structures, in which two crystalline forms (austenitic (fcc) and ferritic (bcc)) coexist.

Even soaps are complicated. "Soap is a salt of a fatty acid used in a variety of cleansing and lubricating products." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap

The OP seems to be looking for a classification method for or taxonomy of matter, particularly solids. See - https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...nd_Measurement/1.02:_Classification_of_Matter

 

[Frabjous]

Even metals have gotten more complicated. For example: high entropy alloys, amorphous metals and nanocrystalline materials.

I once read a book about different states of matter, which went beyond the traditional solid, liquid and gas, to look at colloids. One example was that of quick clay.

Do you remember the reference and do you recommend it?

 

[Astronuc]

Even alloying has gotten more complicated. For example, high entropy alloys.

Do you have the reference and do you recommend it?

I read the book about 50 years ago. I vaguely remember the title as something like "The Seven States of Matter", and it was probably written in the late 1960s or early 1970s. That was well before the variety of alloys and HE-alloys presently developed.

Here is another example/attempt to classify matter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_of_matter

 

[anorlunda]

In what solids class would you put Aerogel?

 

[Frabjous]

In what solids class would you put Aerogel?

I do not think we have adequately defined them, but to me it is a porous solid which I would describe as a gas-solid mixture with specific properties (which I will not list here).

 

[Bystander]

I vaguely remember the title as something like "The Seven States of Matter", and it was probably written in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

Still in my library...somewhere; sixties, bought it at KU, "Rock Chalk, Chickenhawk..." Waste of money.

 

[symbolipoint]

"...precise terminology...?" These are "mixtures, suspensions, emulsions, blends, of powders in a wide variety of aggregation/s of forms that can only loosely be called solids, depending on time scale/shear rate/s;" what is your intended audience?

Audience be mostly common people, product users, possibly extending to persons who create or formulate blended products.

 

[Bystander]

mostly common people,

"Snake oil" salesmen and their natural prey, suckers, will always be with us; caveat emptor has been a long established principle/rule in this world, and if materials science is necessary to understand fantastic claims, common people will either learn materials science themselves, or vet the fantastic claims with a someone whom they trust who does know, or can find out.

 

[symbolipoint]

"Snake oil" salesmen and their natural prey, suckers, will always be with us; caveat emptor has been a long established principle/rule in this world, and if materials science is necessary to understand fantastic claims, common people will either learn materials science themselves, or vet the fantastic claims with a someone whom they trust who does know, or can find out.

This is way off the topic. The question is about how to precisely describe the mechanical type behavior with the use of proper terminology; not about salesmen claims of any kind.

 

[f95toli]

Terminologies of this type are sometimes developed by SDOs (standardisation development organisations), although I doubt you will find a single standard that covers all solid matter.
Industry alliances and similar organisations also sometimes develop terminologies, in this case maybe IUPAC?

Have you tried searching in the relevant databases?

 

[symbolipoint]

Terminologies of this type are sometimes developed by SDOs (standardisation development organisations), although I doubt you will find a single standard that covers all solid matter.
Industry alliances and similar organisations also sometimes develop terminologies, in this case maybe IUPAC?

Have you tried searching in the relevant databases?

The topic is not related to any databases about the way materials behave mechanically (if "mechanical" is what is the best character for the original question).

The original question would relate either to mechanical qualities of solids or (possibly) rheology.

 

[f95toli]

I meant databases listing standards
E.g.
https://www.iso.org/search.html

Or
https://www.degruyter.com/database/iupac/html

The latter is probably the most relevant database for the question in the OP.

Defining terms is an important pars of what SDOs and as organisations such as IUPAC do; and you can find terminologies for many different areas of technology and science if you search their databases.
If you ever wonder what the correct name is for something or what the actual definition is; the relevant database is often a good place to start

 

[symbolipoint]

I meant databases listing standards
E.g.
https://www.iso.org/search.html

Or
https://www.degruyter.com/database/iupac/html

The latter is probably the most relevant database for the question in the OP.

Defining terms is an important pars of what SDOs and as organisations such as IUPAC do; and you can find terminologies for many different areas of technology and science if you search their databases.
If you ever wonder what the correct name is for something or what the actual definition is; the relevant database is often a good place to start

Thanks. I will check into those sites.

 

[symbolipoint]

I meant databases listing standards
E.g.
https://www.iso.org/search.html

Or
https://www.degruyter.com/database/iupac/html

The latter is probably the most relevant database for the question in the OP.

Defining terms is an important pars of what SDOs and as organisations such as IUPAC do; and you can find terminologies for many different areas of technology and science if you search their databases.
If you ever wonder what the correct name is for something or what the actual definition is; the relevant database is often a good place to start

I took a look. No way to find what I'm looking for in there.

 

[symbolipoint]

Small amount of improved understanding about the topic: I am looking most generally about Mechanical Properties Of Non Crystalline Materials. and Nonlinear Behavior of Non Crystalline Materials.

 

[TeethWhitener]

Summary:: Not sure the precise terminology to discuss different solid matter states, and also not sure if this is generally subject of mechanical or chemical engineering.

A homogenous organic mixture in a solid form holds its shape very well, but if you push hard on it, it will deform and remain with that deformation, permanently. Also, if scraped with a knife or chisel, a curved piece of this scraping is removed. This organic solid can also easily be cut with a knife.

This sounds like a material with a small elastic limit but which has a very large plastic region (like modeling clay).

Summary:: Not sure the precise terminology to discuss different solid matter states, and also not sure if this is generally subject of mechanical or chemical engineering.

A homogenous organic mixture in solid form holds its shape very well, and if you try to scoop from it, not much happens; and if you try to scrape from it, then brittle flakes from as the scrapings. This organic solid, if try to cut with a knife will only pop off chunks not with any smooth movement through the material.

This sounds like a brittle material (relatively high elastic limit vs plastic deformation region of the stress strain curve).

Summary:: Not sure the precise terminology to discuss different solid matter states, and also not sure if this is generally subject of mechanical or chemical engineering.

This next one, I have no clear idea how to say - a homogenous mixture of solids and liquids and it holds its shape but does not resist any attempt at deforming upon any mechanical force, and once done so, does not continue to hold any sharp indent of this action.

This sounds like a colloidal gel.

Generally if people need to be precise when talking about a solid’s mechanical properties, they’ll discuss it in terms of the features of its stress strain diagram. Attempting to use non-quantitative language necessarily introduces imprecision, and as a result, you’re always going to be able to find edge cases that don’t neatly fit into imprecise qualitative-only boxes.