How to find potential *Energy* between two point charges?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of potential energy between two point charges, specifically focusing on the relationship between electric potential and potential energy. Participants explore the formulas involved and clarify the concepts of potential difference and energy in the context of point charges.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the potential difference between two points is given by the difference in potential values, while others question the accuracy of the formula presented for potential at a distance from a charge.
  • One participant asks about the potential energy of a charge located at a point with a given potential produced by another charge, leading to discussions about the formula for potential energy.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of potential energy as a property of the system of two charges versus the potential energy of an individual charge in the field of another charge.
  • Some participants clarify that the potential energy can be expressed as \( \frac{qQ}{4\pi\epsilon_0 r} \), while others emphasize that this represents the energy of the system rather than individual components.
  • Discussions arise about the implications of moving charges from infinity to a certain distance and how this relates to the potential energy of the system.
  • Participants express confusion over the correct interpretation of potential energy in relation to the positions of the charges and the potential function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of potential energy and its relation to the individual charges versus the system as a whole. Multiple competing views remain regarding the correct application of the formulas and the definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made about the definitions of potential and potential energy, as well as the context in which these formulas are applied. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the mathematical expressions and their physical meanings.

gracy
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How to find potential ENERGY between two point charges?I know how to find potential difference between two points and I also know how to find potential at any point .
potential difference between two points 1 and 2 is simply ##V1##-##V2##
potential at any point r=V
While source charge is Q
##V(r)##=##Q/4πε0r##
 
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What is the PE of a charge q when located at a point with potential V, produced by charge Q?
 
gracy said:
potential at any point r=V
While source charge is Q
##V(r)##=##Q/4πε0r##
The formula is wrong.
 
nasu said:
What is the PE of a charge q when located at a point with potential V, produced by charge Q?
qV
i.e
##qQ##/##4(πε0r)##
 
Yes. Just move the first paranthesis before the "4".
You don't have this in the textbook?
 
But it is potential energy at a point .My textbook does not specify at which point between the particles,it just says determine the potential energy between the two particles.
 
No, r is the distance between particles. There is no point involved. This is the PE of the system of two charges.
 
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nasu said:
Yes. Just move the first paranthesis before the "4".
##qQ/(4πε0r)##
Is it correct?
 
##qQ/(4πε0r)## is the potential energy between the two particles having charge q and Q respectively,it is also equal to potential energy of the any of the two particles due to the other one ,right?
 
  • #10
The potential energy is a property of the system not of an individual component. You can say "the pe of the system of two particles" or "the pe of one in the field of the other". In the second case one of them is "represented" by its field. But you cannot "split" it between the two.
 
  • #11
nasu said:
"the pe of one in the field of the other
gracy said:
,it is also equal to potential energy of the any of the two particles due to the other one
That's what I am saying.
 
  • #12
## \#\# ## V(r) = {Q\over 4\pi\epsilon_0 r} ## \# \# ##

## V(r) = {Q\over 4\pi\epsilon_0 r} ## is the electrical potential at a distance ##r## from the origin if a charge ##Q## is placed at the origin. ##V## is in volt (= Joule/Coulomb) .

It takes an energy ##q V## to bring a charge from a place where ##V = 0## (usually infinity) to a place where the potential energy is ##V##. ##\ \ qV## is in Joule

So ## qQ\over 4\pi\epsilon_0 r ## is the energy it takes to move ##q## from infinity to a distance ## r ## of ##Q## . It is also the energy it takes to move ##Q## from infinity to a distance ##r## of ##q## .
 
  • #13
## V(r) = {Q\over 4\pi\epsilon_0 r} ##
is potential energy of q when it is kept at distance r of Q from infinity.
It is also potential energy of Q when it is kept at origin (from infinity to a distance r of q)
It is also potential energy between the two particles having charge q and Q,Right?
 
  • #14
No. $$ V(r) = {Q\over 4\pi\epsilon_0 r} $$is the electrical potential at a distance ## r ## from the origin if a charge ##Q## is placed at the origin.

No q involved. ##V## is a function of position (or rather, distance) ##r##.
 
  • #15
Sorry,sorry!I meant
## {Qq\over 4\pi\epsilon_0 r} ##
is potential energy of q when it is kept at distance r of Q from infinity.
It is also potential energy of Q when it is kept at origin (from infinity to a distance r of q)
It is also potential energy between the two particles having charge q and Q,Right?
 
  • #16
gracy said:
It is also potential energy of Q when it is kept at origin (from infinity to a distance r of q)
Nearly right, but you are mixing two different statements.
You can think of it is the PE of Q when held at distance r from q (though as has been pointed out, it is really the PE of the system);
It is the energy required to bring a charge Q from infinity to be at distance r from q.

Writing " ... when kept at ... from infinity" makes it incomprehensible.
 
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  • #17
gracy said:
It is also potential energy between the two particles having charge q and Q,Right?
 
  • #18
gracy said:
It is also potential energy between the two particles having charge q and Q,Right?
Yes.
 

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