How to Normalize a Wavefunction with Modulus x?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimmy87
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Wavefunctions
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around normalizing a wavefunction defined as psi(x) = A for |x| < a, where the modulus of x is involved. Participants are exploring the implications of the modulus in the context of wavefunction normalization, particularly how to set up the integral for normalization and what values to square.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to square the wavefunction and the implications of the modulus in the function's definition. Questions arise about how to interpret the modulus and its effect on the normalization integral. There are attempts to clarify the setup of the normalization integral and the behavior of the wavefunction within the specified limits.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing guidance on how to approach the normalization integral. There is recognition of the need to incorporate the behavior of the wavefunction into the integral, and various interpretations of the function's definition are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the nature of the wavefunction due to the presence of the modulus, and there are references to textbook definitions that may not align with the original poster's understanding. The discussion also touches on the challenges of integrating piecewise functions.

Jimmy87
Messages
692
Reaction score
19

Homework Statement


Normalise the wavefunction in the diagram which is given by:

psi(x) = A {x} < a

{x} is supposed to be mod x.

Homework Equations


None specifically

The Attempt at a Solution


I know that the square integral of the wavefunction needs to be set equal to 1. I am unsure exactly what I square as I haven't seen a wave-function written with a mod x. I know that mod x just means x with positive values. I know I need to square the wavefunction first so would that be:

psi(x) squared = A^2 a^2?

The answer for the square integrable of this wavefunction is A^2(2a) according to my textbook but they don't show you how. You would then have to choose A equal to 1/sqrt 2a and plug that into the original function to normalise it. I don't see how the square integral is A^2(2a) unless you take the area of the graph to be the integral of the function which is A(2a) but then if you square this then you get A^2(2a)^2?

upload_2016-1-18_19-2-35.png
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The wavefunction should be written like
$$
\psi(x) = A \hspace{0.5cm} \textrm{for} \hspace{2mm} |x|<a
$$
and zero otherwise. A mathematical expression like ##|x|<a## is equivalent to ##-a<x<a##.

The normalization reads as
$$
\int_{-\infty}^\infty |\psi(x)|^2 = 1
$$
What do you get if you calculate the left side using the given wavefunction?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Jimmy87
blue_leaf77 said:
The wavefunction should be written like
$$
\psi(x) = A \hspace{0.5cm} \textrm{for} \hspace{2mm} |x|<a
$$
and zero otherwise. A mathematical expression like ##|x|<a## is equivalent to ##-a<x<a##.

The normalization reads as
$$
\int_{-\infty}^\infty |\psi(x)|^2 = 1
$$
What do you get if you calculate the left side using the given wavefunction?

Yes sorry, what you wrote is exactly what is written in my textbook. This is what I am not sure about. I know I need to square the function first so I will get A^2 but I don't know what else to square is mod x part of the actual function or not? I can't actually get my teeth into this function. I am happy taking the square integral of complex exponentials but this simple one has thrown me!
 
Jimmy87 said:
is mod x part of the actual function or not?
I was aware that that's part of your confusion, that's why I purposely added "for" to the right of the wavefunction.
blue_leaf77 said:
The wavefunction should be written like
$$
\psi(x) = A \hspace{0.5cm} \textrm{for} \hspace{2mm} |x|<a
$$
and zero otherwise.
The above lines describe the nature of ##\psi(x)##. This just means that ##\psi(x)## has values of zero within ##-a## and ##a##, and zero outside this range. Now you have to incorporate this behavior of ##\psi(x)## into the normalization integral.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
I was aware that that's part of your confusion, that's why I purposely added "for" to the right of the wavefunction.

The above lines describe the nature of ##\psi(x)##. This just means that ##\psi(x)## has values of zero within ##-a## and ##a##, and zero outside this range. Now you have to incorporate this behavior of ##\psi(x)## into the normalization integral.

Thanks. Could you give me some guidance on how to do this? Since the integral of any function is the area under the graph can I not say that the integral for ##\psi(x)## is A(2a)?
 
Jimmy87 said:
Since the integral of any function is the area under the graph can I not say that the integral for ##\psi(x)## is A(2a)?
That's right except for that the "graph" you are talking about should be ##|\psi(x)|^2##, instead of ##\psi(x)##.
 
Jimmy87 said:
Yes sorry, what you wrote is exactly what is written in my textbook. This is what I am not sure about. I know I need to square the function first so I will get A^2 but I don't know what else to square is mod x part of the actual function or not? I can't actually get my teeth into this function. I am happy taking the square integral of complex exponentials but this simple one has thrown me!

I recall someone else had a similar problem recently when they couldn't accept a constant as a function, because it didn't have x in it. Try the equivalent

##\Psi(x) = A\frac{e^x}{e^x}## for ## |x| < a##

If you need x in your definition of a function.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Jimmy87
blue_leaf77 said:
That's right except for that the "graph" you are talking about should be ##|\psi(x)|^2##, instead of ##\psi(x)##.

Thanks for your help. Ok so I think I get it. In my graph do we call the y-axis Ψ(x). So |ψ(x)|2 would be the square of that graph which means the amplitude A would become A^2. And the integral will be the area underneath the |ψ(x)|2 graph which would be A^2(2a), namely height multiplied by width?
 
Jimmy87 said:
Thanks for your help. Ok so I think I get it. In my graph do we call the y-axis Ψ(x). So |ψ(x)|2 would be the square of that graph which means the amplitude A would become A^2. And the integral will be the area underneath the |ψ(x)|2 graph which would be A^2(2a), namely height multiplied by width?
Yes.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Jimmy87
  • #10
blue_leaf77 said:
Yes.

Thanks. The solution to the normalisation is A is set equal to 1/sqrt2a. This means that when you take the square integral of the original function using limits of -a to +a using this expression for A you should get 1. Is there a way of showing this mathematically by actually plugging in the limits and doing the integration as you would normally. For example if you square your new wavefunction you get 1/2a. And you can't really integrate this the usual way as you would end upw ith the integral of 1/a which is ln(a). I can see how you get it by using the area of the graph as the integral because then you get 1/2a multiplied by 2a which gives 1.
 
  • #11
Jimmy87 said:
Is there a way of showing this mathematically by actually plugging in the limits and doing the integration as you would normally. For example if you square your new wavefunction you get 1/2a. And you can't really integrate this the usual way as you would end upw ith the integral of 1/a which is ln(a). I can see how you get it by using the area of the graph as the integral because then you get 1/2a multiplied by 2a which gives 1.
When you have a function that is defined by parts, the integral looks like
$$
\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(x) dx = \int_{-\infty}^{-a} f(x) dx + \int_{-a}^{a} f(x) dx + \int_{a}^{\infty} f(x) dx
$$
In your case, on the right hand side, the first and last integrals are 0 because ##f(x)=0## over those ranges.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Jimmy87
  • #12
DrClaude said:
When you have a function that is defined by parts, the integral looks like
$$
\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(x) dx = \int_{-\infty}^{-a} f(x) dx + \int_{-a}^{a} f(x) dx + \int_{a}^{\infty} f(x) dx
$$
In your case, on the right hand side, the first and last integrals are 0 because ##f(x)=0## over those ranges.

Thanks. But with the middle integral are you not taking the integral of 1/2a and then evaluating from -a to +a? How do you end up with one from that integral?
 
  • #13
Jimmy87 said:
But with the middle integral are you not taking the integral of 1/2a and then evaluating from -a to +a?
I just wrote a generic function ##f(x)##. In your case, ##f(x) = \left| \psi(x) \right|^2##.
 
  • #14
Jimmy87 said:
Thanks. The solution to the normalisation is A is set equal to 1/sqrt2a. This means that when you take the square integral of the original function using limits of -a to +a using this expression for A you should get 1. Is there a way of showing this mathematically by actually plugging in the limits and doing the integration as you would normally. For example if you square your new wavefunction you get 1/2a. And you can't really integrate this the usual way as you would end upw ith the integral of 1/a which is ln(a). I can see how you get it by using the area of the graph as the integral because then you get 1/2a multiplied by 2a which gives 1.
You've really got a problem with the constant function. There's not much to say except that the integral of the constant function 1/a is most certainly not ln(a). It's x/a. And that's just about the simplest integral there is.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Jimmy87
  • #15
PeroK said:
You've really got a problem with the constant function. There's not much to say except that the integral of the constant function 1/a is most certainly not ln(a). It's x/a. And that's just about the simplest integral there is.

Yes it is really strange I can't quite grasp it as I find other complex integrations such as gaussian functions fine. So in this problem we are integrating 1/a with respect to what? x? So are you saying that the integral of a constant with respect to x is x times the constant?
 
  • #16
Jimmy87 said:
So are you saying that the integral of a constant with respect to x is x times the constant?
Yes:
$$
\int A \, dx = A \int dx = A x
$$
 
  • #17
DrClaude said:
Yes:
$$
\int A \, dx = A \int dx = A x
$$

Ok, I see so I have done this to show what I think you mean for the problem in question. So is this what you mean I should get:

upload_2016-1-18_22-15-27.png
 
  • #18
Jimmy87 said:
Ok, I see so I have done this to show what I think you mean for the problem in question. So is this what you mean I should get:
Correct!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Jimmy87
  • #19
DrClaude said:
Correct!
Thank you!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K