How to solve this second-order nonlinear ordinary differential equation?

In summary, the conversation was about trying to solve a calculus problem involving the equation of a curve traced by a dog chasing a postman. The equation given was \frac{w}{v}(1-\frac{y(x)y''(x)}{{y'(x)}^{2}})=\sqrt{1+{y(x)}^{2}}-\sqrt{1+{C}^{2}}, and the speaker was trying to figure out how to solve it. Another person suggested simplifying the equation and using substitutions to solve for the independent variable. However, the speaker had already tried this and was unable to solve the resulting equation. The conversation ended with the speaker expressing uncertainty about how to proceed.
  • #1
dimension10
371
0
I was trying to solve a calculus problem (about the equation of the curve traced by a dog chasing a postman) and I came across the following equation. I would like to know how to solve it.

[tex]\frac{w}{v}(1-\frac{y(x)y''(x)}{{y'(x)}^{2}})=\sqrt{1+{y(x)}^{2}}-\sqrt{1+{C}^{2}}[/tex]

Thanks.
 
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  • #2
dimension10 said:
I was trying to solve a calculus problem (about the equation of the curve traced by a dog chasing a postman) and I came across the following equation. I would like to know how to solve it.

[tex]\frac{w}{v}(1-\frac{y(x)y''(x)}{{y'(x)}^{2}})=\sqrt{1+{y(x)}^{2}}-\sqrt{1+{C}^{2}}[/tex]

Thanks.

You have got to remove all that clutter. It just makes it way more confussing. And what's with all those extra letters. Need to absorb them into one another for now. How about start with writing it as:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

See what I mean?
Now, itsn't that an equation with the independent variable missing? You know the kind where you let:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=p[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

Now, make all those substitutions, solve it for p in terms of y, and then integrate one more time.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
jackmell said:
You have got to remove all that clutter. It just makes it way more confussing. And what's with all those extra letters. Need to absorb them into one another for now. How about start with writing it as:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

See what I mean?
Now, itsn't that an equation with the independent variable missing? You know the kind where you let:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=p[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

Now, make all those substitutions, solve it for p in terms of y, and then integrate one more time.

But I tried that and got

[tex]p=\int {(\frac{dy}{dx})}^{2}(\frac{c-\sqrt{1+{y}^{2}}}{k}+1)dx[/tex]which is equivalent to

[tex]y=\int \int {(\frac{dy}{dx})}^{2}(\frac{c-\sqrt{1+{y}^{2}}}{k}+1)dx\; dx[/tex]

but I have no idea how to solve that...
 
  • #4
Let's solve this one:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c,\quad y(0)=1,\quad y'(0)=1[/tex]
Letting:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dt}=p,\quad \frac{d^2y}{dy^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

then:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{ypp'}{p^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

at this point, separate the variables first, then let [itex]u=k+c[/itex] and then integrate to obtain:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y'} k\frac{dp}{p}=\int_0^y \frac{u-\sqrt{1+y^2}}{y}dy[/tex]

[tex]k\log(y')=\left(u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2})-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}\right)-k2[/tex]

so that:

[tex]
\begin{align*}
\frac{dy}{dt}&=\exp\left\{\frac{1}{k}\biggr[u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2}-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}-k2\biggr]\right\}\\
&=e^{f(y)}
\end{align*}
[/tex]

then we integrate again:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y} e^{-f(y)}dy=\int_0^t dt[/tex]

to obtain the implicit answer:

[tex]h(y)=t[/tex]

or:

[tex]y=h^{-1}(t)[/tex]

Now, ain't that beautiful or what?

and we can check this numerically in Mathematica by first solving the IVP numerically, then integrate our analytic solution numerically and compare the two. Note in the Table command below, I implicitly "invert" the function h(y) by reversing the calculated values {t(y),y}:

Code:
w = 0.5; 
v = 1.7; 
k = w/v; 
c2 = 1.5; 
c = Sqrt[1 + c2^2]; 
y0 = 1; 
y1 = 1; 
u = k + c; 
k2 = Log[1 + Sqrt[2]] - Sqrt[2]

mysol = NDSolve[{k*(1 - (y[t]*Derivative[2][y][t])/Derivative[1][y][t]^2) == Sqrt[1 + y[t]^2] - c, 
    y[0] == y0, Derivative[1][y][0] == y1}, y, {t, 0, 5}]

p1 = Plot[y[t] /. mysol, {t, 0, 5}, PlotStyle -> Red]

f[y_] := Exp[(-k^(-1))*(u*Log[y] + Log[1 + Sqrt[1 + y^2]] - Log[y] - Sqrt[1 + y^2] - k2)]

myt[y_] := NIntegrate[f[s], {s, y0, y}]

mysol = Table[{myt[y], y}, {y, y0, 5, 0.1}]; 

p2 = ListPlot[mysol, Joined -> True, PlotStyle -> Blue]
Show[{p1, p2}]

There may however be a better way to solve this.
 
Last edited:
  • #5
jackmell said:
Let's solve this one:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c,\quad y(0)=1,\quad y'(0)=1[/tex]
Letting:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dt}=p,\quad \frac{d^2y}{dy^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

then:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{ypp'}{p^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

at this point, separate the variables first, then let [itex]u=k+c[/itex] and then integrate to obtain:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y'} k\frac{dp}{p}=\int_0^y \frac{u-\sqrt{1+y^2}}{y}dy[/tex]

[tex]k\log(y')=\left(u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2})-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}\right)-k2[/tex]

so that:

[tex]
\begin{align*}
\frac{dy}{dt}&=\exp\left\{\frac{1}{k}\biggr[u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2}-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}-k2\biggr]\right\}\\
&=e^{f(y)}
\end{align*}
[/tex]

then we integrate again:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y} e^{-f(y)}dy=\int_0^t dt[/tex]

to obtain the implicit answer:

[tex]h(y)=t[/tex]

or:

[tex]y=h^{-1}(t)[/tex]

Now, ain't that beautiful or what?

and we can check this numerically in Mathematica by first solving the IVP numerically, then integrate our analytic solution numerically and compare the two. Note in the Table command below, I implicitly "invert" the function h(y) by reversing the calculated values {t(y),y}:

Code:
w = 0.5; 
v = 1.7; 
k = w/v; 
c2 = 1.5; 
c = Sqrt[1 + c2^2]; 
y0 = 1; 
y1 = 1; 
u = k + c; 
k2 = Log[1 + Sqrt[2]] - Sqrt[2]

mysol = NDSolve[{k*(1 - (y[t]*Derivative[2][y][t])/Derivative[1][y][t]^2) == Sqrt[1 + y[t]^2] - c, 
    y[0] == y0, Derivative[1][y][0] == y1}, y, {t, 0, 5}]

p1 = Plot[y[t] /. mysol, {t, 0, 5}, PlotStyle -> Red]

f[y_] := Exp[(-k^(-1))*(u*Log[y] + Log[1 + Sqrt[1 + y^2]] - Log[y] - Sqrt[1 + y^2] - k2)]

myt[y_] := NIntegrate[f[s], {s, y0, y}]

mysol = Table[{myt[y], y}, {y, y0, 5, 0.1}]; 

p2 = ListPlot[mysol, Joined -> True, PlotStyle -> Blue]
Show[{p1, p2}]

There may however be a better way to solve this.

Thanks.
 

1. How do I identify a second-order nonlinear ordinary differential equation?

A second-order nonlinear ordinary differential equation (ODE) is a type of differential equation that contains a second derivative of the dependent variable and also has nonlinear terms. Nonlinear terms involve products, powers, or other operations on the dependent variable. These equations can be identified by the presence of a second derivative and nonlinear terms.

2. What are some common methods for solving second-order nonlinear ODEs?

There are several techniques for solving second-order nonlinear ODEs, including substitution, separation of variables, and using power series or numerical methods. The method chosen will depend on the specific form of the equation and the initial conditions given.

3. Is it possible to find an analytical solution to a second-order nonlinear ODE?

In most cases, it is not possible to find an analytical solution to a second-order nonlinear ODE. This is because these equations are highly complex and do not have a standard form that can be solved using known methods. Instead, numerical methods are often used to approximate a solution.

4. How do initial conditions affect the solution to a second-order nonlinear ODE?

Initial conditions, such as the values of the dependent variable and its first derivative at a specific point, are essential in determining the unique solution to a second-order nonlinear ODE. These conditions act as starting points for the solution and are typically given in the form of a boundary value problem or an initial value problem.

5. Are there any software programs or tools that can help with solving second-order nonlinear ODEs?

Yes, there are many software programs and tools available that can assist with solving second-order nonlinear ODEs. These include Mathematica, MATLAB, and Python libraries such as SciPy and SymPy. These tools use numerical methods to approximate the solution to the equation and can handle a wide range of equations and initial conditions.

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