How to Trace Particle Trajectories in a Cartesian Box Structure?

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    Box Structure tracing
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around tracking particle trajectories within a Cartesian box structure, focusing on experimental methods for visualizing and analyzing these paths. Participants explore various particle types, including electrons and photons, and consider different technologies and approaches for tracking their movements and interactions with the box's walls.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an experiment to follow a particle's trajectory until it collides with the box's wall, seeking methods to visualize this path.
  • Another suggests using a flashlight and camera to infer the box's structure from scattered photons, while also mentioning direct observation as a simpler method.
  • Some participants argue that tracking electrons is easier than photons, emphasizing the need to measure time and distance from the box's center upon collision.
  • A participant mentions the use of radar technology for tracking photons, questioning the feasibility of tracking individual photons compared to electrons.
  • A cloud chamber is proposed as a potential tool for tracking electrons, with discussions on how varying trajectories might affect momentum.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of quantum mechanics on the paths of electrons, noting that while individual paths are not observable, all possible paths contribute to a probability distribution.
  • One participant expresses interest in visualizing electron paths that converge at a center, while another questions the necessity of using subatomic particles versus larger objects like super balls.
  • Speculation arises regarding the visualization of spacetime structures and the potential effects of relativistic speeds on particle trajectories.
  • Participants acknowledge the speculative nature of some ideas, particularly when moving beyond Cartesian structures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of viewpoints on the best methods and technologies for tracking particles, with no consensus reached on the optimal approach or the specific types of particles to use. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of different trajectories and the visualization of spacetime structures.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the choice of particle type and tracking technology, as well as unresolved questions about the effects of relativistic speeds and the nature of the trajectories being studied.

fredreload
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I want to do an experiment where I follow the particle in all trajectory until it hits the wall of the box, then I want to draw out this box's structure based on the particle collision. One thing would be that the particle does not need to go in all trajectory, but I would like to know how to make the particle go in all trajectory and how to follow the path for each of these particles. That would probably be another question. Thanks for the help!
 
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How about using a flashlight and a camera?
Upon striking a wall, many of the photos will scatter - some towards the camera. The structure of the box can be inferred from the direction from which the photons reach the camera and the relative intensity of the light from each direction.
Or, if you don't want to use a camera, there is actually a simpler and superior method. View the scattered photons directly with your eyes. The stereoscopic data collection will allow a more detailed analysis of the box structure.
 
I think it would be easier doing this with electron, photon is too hard to keep track. When it hit the boundary of the box I want to keep track of the time it takes and the length it moved from the box center. I would be good if I can track the electron's speed too.
 
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What do you know about the technology used to track electrons and photons?

What you are describing is done routinely every day with photons - it's called "radar".
 
Right but it is hard to track individual position of photon in comparison to electron. If you can recommend me a technology used to track the electron's position and speed it would be cool.
 
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That looks really cool, how about having the electron move at various trajectory? Would that cause a change in momentum?
 
fredreload said:
That looks really cool, how about having the electron move at various trajectory? Would that cause a change in momentum?
If you observe it, the path of the electron will be unique. If you don't observe it, it will be unknown. But a single electron will never be seen as taking more than one path, even from the quantum mechanical point of view (QM will say nothing about which path an electron actually took, but that all possible paths contributed to the probability distribution of where you will find the electron).
 
But this probability distribution will sketch out my box :D
 
  • #10
fredreload said:
But this probability distribution will sketch out my box :D
Not with a single particle, if you want to follow its trajectory.
 
  • #11
Well I'm looking for electron path where it converges at the center like a * shape, but if the electron path is going in a straight line it doesn't really trace out the spherical shape of a sphere, so if the electron can move at a curved or random trajectory it would be cool, then I plot all paths at a particular distance with the amount of time it takes.
 
  • #12
Of course, if you insist on electrons, you will some pretty high-energy electrons or you will need to put that box in a vacuum. That cloud chamber is actually tracking heavier particles.
I don't see how a curved trajectory works for you, but a magnet can cause the electron path to bend.
Does the particle need to be a subatomic particle? Would a colloidal dispersion do? Or perhaps a superball? I really don't have a sense of what your limits are.
superball-2.jpg
 
  • #13
It will be speculation from here so I'll leave it as it is for now, thanks for the candy, or marble lol
 
  • #14
fredreload said:
It will be speculation from here so I'll leave it as it is for now, thanks for the candy, or marble lol
Those are super balls. The original black ones were made of vulcanized polybutadiene. They bounce like crazy, so if you throw them into a box and track their motion (for example, with a camera), every bounce will tell you where there is a surface.
 
  • #15
Well hmm, I am thinking to sketch out the structure of space time, in which a minimum or maximum value can be visualized. So if an electron is traveling along the space time structure it should experience a maximum value. But of course this does not account for the speed of the particle and the relativistic aspect of the question so it would be a speculation on my part. By doing so it might be possible to find the curvature in space time or it might be that the structure is too small to be visualized. This is done by NASA. I'm assuming a non cartesian structure.
 
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  • #16
Nevermind, assume a cartesian structure, if it is not it would be speculation.
 

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