How to visualize entropy in thermodynamics

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entropy in thermodynamics, particularly its visualization and mathematical representation. Participants are exploring the relationship between entropy, disorder, and statistical mechanics, referencing equations such as S = q/T and S = k ln W.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to visualize entropy and its implications in practical scenarios. Questions are raised about proving the relationship S = k ln W using statistical mechanics, and the nature of macrostates and microstates. There is also inquiry into the implications of equating different definitions of entropy.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing various definitions and approaches to understanding entropy. Some guidance has been offered regarding the thermodynamic definition of entropy, while multiple interpretations of the concept are being explored without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of homework guidelines, focusing on theoretical aspects of entropy without providing complete solutions. There is an emphasis on understanding definitions and their implications in statistical mechanics.

vijay123
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entropy is the measure of disorder...but i just cannot visualize it in a practical standpoint...i mean...the disorder taking place with soo many particles when heated and yet all i know is that s=q/t...can anyone explain this concept better to me?

one more question...how does one prove using statistical mechanics that
s=(boltzmann's constant)lnw...were w is the number of macrostates...

i was tryng to do calculus based entropy probelms...but can do them in refrence to s=(boltzmann's constant)lnw, by counting the number of macrostates available??

and is it possible to find th number of macrostates by equating (boltzmann's constant)lnw=q/t...is this a very large number?
 
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vijay123 said:
one more question...how does one prove using statistical mechanics that
s=(boltzmann's constant)lnw...were w is the number of macrostates...
Entropy of a composite system is given by:
S* = SA + SA'-----(1)
Number of accessible states to A* is:
W* = WAWA'------(2)

S*,SA, SA' are entropies of composite system A*, A and A' respectively(A* composed of A and A').
The entropy is a "state" function.
For (1) & (2) to hold good simultaneously, what should be the nature of this function?
 
W in S=klnW is the number of microstates.

I was indtroduced to entropy through S=klnW as the definition, therefore it's not provable. What definition of S do you use??
 
vijay123 said:
entropy is the measure of disorder...but i just cannot visualize it in a practical standpoint...i mean...the disorder taking place with soo many particles when heated and yet all i know is that s=q/t...can anyone explain this concept better to me?

one more question...how does one prove using statistical mechanics that
s=(boltzmann's constant)lnw...were w is the number of macrostates...

i was tryng to do calculus based entropy probelms...but can do them in refrence to s=(boltzmann's constant)lnw, by counting the number of macrostates available??

and is it possible to find th number of macrostates by equating (boltzmann's constant)lnw=q/t...is this a very large number?
Use the thermodynamic definition of entropy and forget about the concept of disorder: dS = dQ/T

AM
 
You'll need to use the definition of temperature [tex]\frac{1}{k_{B}T} = \frac{\partial\ln\Omega}{\partial U}[/tex] as well.
 
...though you might want to show where that comes from, it might be kinda easy otherwise...
 

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