Hybridization of carbanion in rings

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hybridization of a carbanion in a specific compound and its implications for aromaticity, antiaromaticity, or nonaromaticity. Participants explore the relationship between hybridization, resonance structures, and the number of pi electrons, as well as the theoretical frameworks involved, including valence bond theory and molecular orbital theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the carbanion is sp3 hybridized due to having four groups of electrons, while others argue that the lone pair lies in a p-orbital, suggesting sp2 hybridization instead.
  • There is a claim that the compound has a total of 8 pi electrons, but this is questioned based on the hybridization state.
  • One participant mentions that resonance structures can be drawn to show the delocalization of charge around the ring, indicating that each carbon is sp2 hybridized.
  • Another participant points out that Lewis structures are approximations and that the resonance structures provide a more accurate depiction of the compound's stability.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between valence bond theory and molecular orbital theory, with some participants noting that aromaticity is typically introduced using molecular orbital theory.
  • Questions arise regarding the connection between valence bond theory and VSEPR theory, with a participant noting that VSEPR is derived from valence bond ideas but is a simplified version.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the hybridization of the carbanion and the implications for aromaticity. There is no consensus on the correct hybridization state or the total number of pi electrons, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of hybridization and resonance, as well as unresolved mathematical steps regarding the number of pi electrons and their contributions to aromaticity.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of organic chemistry, particularly those interested in the concepts of hybridization, resonance, and aromaticity in relation to carbanions.

mnmman
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So this question asked me to determine whether this compound was aromatic, antiaromatic, or nonaromatic and also asked how many pi electrons there were. I figure since there are four groups of electrons the carbanion is sp3 hybridized and I think I'm correct because that is what this thread says.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/question-regarding-hybridization-of-carbon.256312/

But apparently the lone pair on this carbanion in this specific compound lies in a p-orbital (as opposed to sp3)? thus making this carbanion sp2 hybridized? for a total of 8 pi electrons. This makes no sense to me any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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mnmman said:
So this question asked me to determine whether this compound was aromatic, antiaromatic, or nonaromatic and also asked how many pi electrons there were. I figure since there are four groups of electrons the carbanion is sp3 hybridized and I think I'm correct because that is what this thread says.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/question-regarding-hybridization-of-carbon.256312/

But apparently the lone pair on this carbanion in this specific compound lies in a p-orbital (as opposed to sp3)? thus making this carbanion sp2 hybridized? for a total of 8 pi electrons. This makes no sense to me any help would be greatly appreciated.

In this particular compound, you can draw resonance structures that move the pair of electrons around the ring. Each of the carbons has one hydrogen bonded to it, and the charge is delocalized around the ring. The only way that this could happen is if each carbon is sp^2.

Remember that Lewis structures are approximations. How about Benzene? The single Lewis structure would predict alternating short and long C-C bonds. The measurement reveals six identical bonds with bond length that is intermediate between C-C and C=C. In the present case, the Lewis structure is incorrect because it predicts a lone pair (with negative charge) on a single carbon -- the lower energy form is with the charge spread out over the entire ring, which is what the resonance structures would predict.
 
Usually this kind of questions is not about hybridization, which is a concept from valence bond theory, as in school aromaticity is introduced using molecular orbital theory. The pi orbitals are formed from p orbitals on the atoms.
 
Quantum Defect said:
draw resonance structures that move the pair of electrons around the ring

ok I can see it now that was very helpful, so if you draw the resonance structures and they end up looking the same but rotated, is that a way you can tell they are especially stable?

DrDu said:
concept from valence bond theory

Does this theory have anything in common with VSEPR? My book only mentions VSEPR and nothing about valence bond theory
 
mnmman said:
Does this theory have anything in common with VSEPR? My book only mentions VSEPR and nothing about valence bond theory
Yes, VSEPR is a scheme that was derived from valence bond ideas, although it is highly simplified.
However terms like hybridization or resonance are from valence bond theory and not VSEPR.
 

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