Where do vacant p-orbitals come from?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origin and nature of vacant p-orbitals in atoms, particularly in the context of carbon's hybridization. Participants explore the quantum mechanical basis of orbitals, their inherent properties, and the implications of orbital occupancy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the source of vacant p-orbitals, noting confusion about the number of 2p orbitals involved in hybridization despite only two unpaired electrons being present.
  • Another participant asserts that orbitals are inherent to atoms and that their absence of electrons does not imply the absence of the orbitals themselves, referencing the Schrödinger Equation as foundational to understanding this concept.
  • A similar point is reiterated by another participant, emphasizing that the quantum mechanical framework dictates the existence of orbitals, including the absence of d-orbitals in period 2 elements.
  • One participant expresses frustration about understanding the number of 2p orbitals in carbon without considering quantum mechanics, suggesting that quantum mechanics is essential for grasping the concept of orbitals.
  • Another participant clarifies that the relationship between quantum numbers explains the presence of three p orbitals for n>=2, and distinguishes between the concept of orbitals and their occupancy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement. While there is a shared understanding that orbitals are inherent to atoms and defined by quantum mechanics, there is contention regarding the interpretation of vacant orbitals and the implications of orbital occupancy.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between quantum mechanics and the physical representation of orbitals, as well as the assumptions underlying the interpretation of orbital occupancy versus availability.

ProfuselyQuarky
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Forgive me for such a such a question; it's probably sleep deprivation or my inherent stupidity. Either way, where do vacant p-orbitals come from?? When carbon's valence electrons find themselves in a bonding situation that requires them to hybridize, their 2s and 2p orbitals merge into a single ##sp^3## orbital. Apparently the "3" refers to the number of 2p orbitals that merged, but I don't understand why there are three?? There are only two unpaired electrons from 2p.
 
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Orbitals are inherent to atoms. Absence of electrons in the orbitals does not mean that the orbitals are absent. Quantum mechanically, these orbitals are obtained by solving the Schrödinger Equation. If you look at how the orbitals are derived based on quantum numbers, you will understand that these are inherent to the atoms. For example, elements of period 2 don't have d-orbitals. That is because the solutions of Schrödinger Equation says that you don't have d-orbitals for principal quantum number 2.

Once you look under the hood (study things through QM), things will become clearer. It's not true that I know everything, but I have studied bits and parts, and orbitals are truly inherent to atoms.
 
Wrichik Basu said:
Orbitals are inherent to atoms. Absence of electrons in the orbitals does not mean that the orbitals are absent. Quantum mechanically, these orbitals are obtained by solving the Schrödinger Equation. If you look at how the orbitals are derived based on quantum numbers, you will understand that these are inherent to the atoms. For example, elements of period 2 don't have d-orbitals. That is because the solutions of Schrödinger Equation says that you don't have d-orbitals for principal quantum number 2.
Quantum mechanics aside, how am I supposed to look at a carbon atom and know that it has 3 2p orbitals?
 
ProfuselyQuarky said:
Quantum mechanics aside, how am I supposed to look at a carbon atom and know that it has 3 2p orbitals?

You can't put quantum mechanics aside and ask about number of orbitals, as it is quantum mechanics that tels us how many orbitals there are. It is all in the quantum numbers and their relationships: ml can take any value from -l to l, so for every n>=2 there are always three p orbitals.

I feel like you are mistaking orbital with an occupied orbital. My desk has three drawers, doesn't mean they can't be empty.
 
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