I am sitting on my chair, am I accelerating for General Relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a person sitting in a chair on Earth is accelerating according to General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the implications of the tangent four-vector and proper acceleration, as well as the effects of different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the tangent four-vector u to their worldline obeys the equation \nabla_{u} u = a, indicating that they are experiencing proper acceleration.
  • Others argue that the proper acceleration measured by an accelerometer is not necessarily constant, raising questions about the nature of acceleration in this context.
  • There is a discussion on whether a scale can be considered an accelerometer, with some suggesting that it measures constant weight when standing on it.
  • Participants question the cause of non-zero acceleration, suggesting it may be due to non-gravitational interactions, such as the normal force from the floor.
  • One participant notes that in an inertial reference frame, they are accelerating, while in the rest frame of Earth, they are not, highlighting the dependence on the frame of reference.
  • There is a debate about whether the frame of reference created by the walls of the house can be considered a constantly accelerated frame and if it can be described using Rindler coordinates.
  • Another participant clarifies that Rindler coordinates are applicable in flat spacetime, while the spacetime near Earth is described by Schwarzschild coordinates, which account for tidal effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of acceleration in GR, the role of frames of reference, and the applicability of Rindler coordinates. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the interpretation of proper acceleration and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of acceleration and frames of reference, as well as the unresolved nature of whether proper acceleration is constant in this scenario.

ArthurB
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Hello,
I am wondering,
if I am sitting on my chair, here at home, planet Earth, am I accelerating (in GR)?
Does the tangent four-vector u to my worldline obey the equation
<br /> \nabla_{u} u = a<br />
or instead
<br /> \nabla_{u} u = 0<br />
??
and if the first one is correct, is the four-vector a constant?
 
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ArthurB said:
Hello,
I am wondering,
if I am sitting on my chair, here at home, planet Earth, am I accelerating (in GR)?
Does the tangent four-vector u to my worldline obey the equation
<br /> \nabla_{u} u = a<br />
Yes, with a not equal to 0.

ArthurB said:
and if the first one is correct, is the four-vector a constant?
a is the proper acceleration which is the acceleration measured by an accelerometer. Is the acceleration measured by an accelerometer constant?
 
DaleSpam said:
a is the proper acceleration which is the acceleration measured by an accelerometer. Is the acceleration measured by an accelerometer constant?

I have no idea. Is a scale an accelerometer? If yes, then when I stand on a scale I see constantly the same weight.
And the other question now is: if a is different than zero, what is its cause? It must be some non-gravitational interaction, right? Is it the reaction of the floor under my feet?
 
ArthurB said:
I have no idea. Is a scale an accelerometer? If yes, then when I stand on a scale I see constantly the same weight.
With a known mass, a bathroom scale can be used as a crude accelerometer, yes. If you have an iPad or an iPhone there is an app you can download which allows you to see the output of the built in accelerometer and magnetometer.

ArthurB said:
And the other question now is: if a is different than zero, what is its cause? It must be some non-gravitational interaction, right? Is it the reaction of the floor under my feet?
Exactly, yes.
 
ArthurB said:
if I am sitting on my chair, here at home, planet Earth, am I accelerating (in GR)?

It depends on the frame of reference. In an inertial reference frame (according to GR) you are accelerating. In the rest frame of Earth you are not accelerating but this frame of reference is.
 
ArthurB said:
I have no idea. Is a scale an accelerometer? If yes, then when I stand on a scale I see constantly the same weight.
Yep. A scale (a spring scale) is essentially an accelerometer. It only captures acceleration in one direction, so it is a directed one dimensional accelerometer. But an accelerometer nonetheless.

And the other question now is: if a is different than zero, what is its cause? It must be some non-gravitational interaction, right? Is it the reaction of the floor under my feet?
Exactly. Accelerometers measure all real forces except gravitation (Newtonian explanation), or all real forces, period (GR explanation). Gravitation is a fictitious force in GR.

The floor is pushing up on you; it is the normal force. That normal force is real in both Newtonian physics and GR; this is what a stationary accelerometer measures. If you put an accelerometer on the floor it would register an acceleration of about 1 g upward.
 
Ok, so my acceleration is constant. So I can say that the frame of reference made by the walls of house is a constantly accelerated frame. Then can I say I am in Rindler coordinates?
 
ArthurB said:
Ok, so my acceleration is constant. So I can say that the frame of reference made by the walls of house is a constantly accelerated frame. Then can I say I am in Rindler coordinates?
No, Rindler coordinates are for flat spacetime (no tidal effects). The spacetime near the Earth is essentially a Schwarzschild spacetime, which is not flat (there are tidal effects).
 

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