Job Skills I finally got my bachelor's degree in physics, now what?

[Locrian]

I may be somewhat of a novice, but I am really enjoying programming. It's more fun than physical science because you get to create things.

I too noticed that you can create some really cool things really fast using software. Combine it with a raspberry pi (or whatever suits you!) and some hardware and you can get some fun from both worlds.

 

[gleem]

The American Institute of Physics Statistics Research Center has some interesting info about employment of BS grad in physics. In a survey of 2015 and 2016 grads 46% had jobs by the winter following their graduation. To get a perspective on that number in 2015 there where 8440 BS physics degrees awarded. 46% of 8440 is 3966. Of the 8440, 3210 entered grad school so the sum of employed grads and those entering grad school is 7776 leaving 664 unemployed or 7.9%. So you say still high. Yes but look at another stat. There were 13,542 senior physics majors. So what happened to some 5100 seniors? Almost 38% of seniors did not graduate with a physics degree. Of those that did (8440) I am very sure that some were marginal. Could it be that 7.9% without a job by winter just didn't have what it takes or lost interest or maybe casualties of a system that just interested in its own needs? It is well know that a large percentage of STEM students do not graduate. These programs over recruit.

It has been said many time on this forum that a degree is not a free ticket to a job. One could put all the blame on the system and some of it should but in this day and age with info freely available on the web there is no excuse for students truly interested in their future not to know the possibilities and be able to prepare for that future.

 

[Zap]

Some of my engineer friends talk about having entry level jobs that are paying over 100k salaries. How is this possible? How can someone who just graduated and has little to no professional experience be worth over 100k? I won't be going back to school anytime soon to get another degree because a few people got extraordinarily lucky, but it deosn't make any sense to me. Are these 100k entry jobs still going to train them? They get 100k salary plus additional training? How is 100k justified here?

 

[symbolipoint]

Some of my engineer friends talk about having entry level jobs that are paying over 100k salaries. How is this possible? How can someone who just graduated and has little to no professional experience be worth over 100k? I won't be going back to school anytime soon to get another degree because a few people got extraordinarily lucky, but it deosn't make any sense to me. Are these 100k entry jobs still going to train them? They get 100k salary plus additional training? How is 100k justified here?

Talk in more detail to your engineering friends. Maybe they have skills from their education that their employers can use. Ask your friends about their own mechanical skills, or equipment they know how to repair, or machines or devices they learned to use before they graduated. Ask them about what computer and programming skills they gained/learned before they graduated. The more someone knows, the easier is for the company to train him. Find out if such friends had any internships along the way before they found their entry level jobs.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Programming becomes massively more difficult as you scale - and by scale i mean lines of code, number of programmers, number of programs, complexity of architecture, and more. Humans have 50 years of frameworks, software design methodologies, systems engineering and management practice experience and surprisingly straightforward projects still fail.

Just figuring out what it is you need to build (e.g. software requirements, project backlog, etc.) is so difficult - and excruciatingly painful - that it is its own subject matter with entire texts devoted to it. Are you waterfall? Agile? SAFe agile? Does it even matter*?

Like a lot of things (teaching comes to mind), programming is fun (and sometimes even easy) when you're just programming. But programming within the social, political, fiscal and temporal constraints typically placed upon programmers can make it very difficult very fast.

*It does!

What you described above is inherent in any large-scale engineering projects, whether it is software or hardware. Building anything to scale becomes difficult, which is why engineering disciplines -- and the methodologies that goes along with the disciplines -- exist to begin with.

As for surprisingly straightforward projects still failing -- in my experience, most such projects tend to fail due to human error combined with bad management practices and targets (e.g. cutting corners to get projects completed with unrealistic timelines). And these failures are also not inherent to software.

 

[Choppy]

Some of my engineer friends talk about having entry level jobs that are paying over 100k salaries. How is this possible? How can someone who just graduated and has little to no professional experience be worth over 100k? I won't be going back to school anytime soon to get another degree because a few people got extraordinarily lucky, but it deosn't make any sense to me. Are these 100k entry jobs still going to train them? They get 100k salary plus additional training? How is 100k justified here?

I think it's important to realize that from a statistical point of view, these cases are outliers. Median entry-level engineering salaries seem to fall in the $55k - $70k range.

That's not to say that such jobs don't exist, just that they are exceedingly rare. But you're asking why they exist at all.

The answer comes down to basic supply and demand, I suspect.

Say, for example, you're a petroleum engineering company and oil prices go up to the point where it's economically profitable to attempt a new means of extracting oil from a natural deposit somewhat and you need engineers to refine your process. But (i) you need to recruit people to live far away from cities and often their families in a camp that you've set up, (ii) you need new engineers that have a general understanding of industrial standards and a set of very specific skills that aren't taught in most engineering programs, and (iii) anyone who knows anything about the industry will know that over the next year or so, the price of oil could drop, the operation will no longer be viable and those jobs could be cut. As a company, you have to sweeten the pot to attract the applicants that you want.

It might also be worth considering that the case of an applicant just scattershotting a generic CV through an online job board and landing one of these high-paying entry level positions is far more unlikely still. Chances are when getting hired on with an exceptional salary, the successful candidates are those who've already done an internship with the company and quite possibly they've beat out other intern candidates in a competitive process.

And of course sometimes, it's just a plain old case of being at the right place at the right time and having a network that includes the right people.

 

[Zap]

Yea. I was joking around with someone about wanting a 100k salary, and then she turned around and told me that's what she'll be making in a few months. And then she proceeds to explain how "that's not really that much money, when you think about it," and yadda yadda, at which I rolled my eyes and became disinterested in the conversation. Someone else claimed to be getting 110k after an MS in ME. I'm not really too sure what their backgrounds are, but they must have done an internship or something at least. That's a crazy amount of money.

 

[Zap]

I am going to try to volunteer in a research lab while I find or not find a job after May. I think I found a way to weasel my way into what I want to do regardless if anyone wants to hire me for it or not, and regardless if I am going to school for it or not. I don't really care if I find a professional career or not immediately after I graduate, anymore. I can survive on minimum wage, and I can do whatever I want, regardless if I have a fancy job or not or whether or not I am in school. I can do everything I could as a student as a non student, and I can do everything I could as a professional as a nonprofessional. Sky is the limit for me, right now. I won't let anything hold me back, not even school. I won't ever be in school again, at least not as a student. I am free as a bird. I can do anything I can imagine, within reason.

I am going to stay in Beverly Hills for three weeks in June. Why? How? Because I can do anything, and I have the technology. "But OMG it's so expensive." Guess what? It's not. I found a way, and I will continue to find a way. I won't be taking the straight and narrow path anymore. ( School --> Job ). I'm doing thangz my way. It's the dawn of a new day, and I'm moving to LA.

If you want to do something in life, what is actually holding you back? Do you think a degree is holding you back? Do you think a job is holding you back? Maybe, you're delusional mind is holding you back. We need to think creatively about our self and our obstacles. If there's something you want or want to do, there isn't anything holding you back ( at least for us single folks ). Maybe, you're just scared. You spent half a decade in school ( or twenty something years, if you count it all ), and now you're traumatized. Don't let that set you back. This is the land of the free. Don't let people convince you to join the military or take on more school, unless that's something you absolutely want to do, because then you won't have the freedom you have right now. Even if money is lacking, and even if you owe 100k in student loans, you're still a free man, and there's a way to do what you want to do. #MAGA

 

[cyboman]

I apologize for not reading this entire thread. I did read much of the first page.

Here's my contribution:

There's a lot of pressure when you're young to follow a set path and end up with a sort of tunnel vision. I've always been critical of the standard model of education in this way.

I would recommend you give yourself the time to figure out what really interests you. Before investing more time and money in anything. You can even just get any simple Joe job to get by and then give some time to yourself to investigate where your passions and curiosities lie. A simple job also frees up your mental energy. Your passions may change over time too. But before investing a lot of money in another degree for the sole purpose of a job, I'd recommend doing that reflection.

You may find that you miss academics and really love physics. Then you would know more.

You may join a salsa dancing club and think, I really love this, how can I make this part of my livelihood. (OK that's pretty fantastical but who knows?)

You may volunteer at a community center and help tutor students in basic sciences or physics. And find teaching really rewarding. Again, now you know more.

In closing, take the time to investigate how you can make your work, play. In this approach, you are seeking to solve a large part of life's equation that's result is lasting happiness and contentment.

 

[gleem]

@Ahmed Abdalla

There has been a lot of advice but some info about yourself was not revealed but should have been. Where are you currently? US? if so where? What are your possibilities for moving? Why did your adviser recommend you not go to grad school? Have you had any interviews? Could you show us your resume?

 

[russ_watters]

Some of my engineer friends talk about having entry level jobs that are paying over 100k salaries. How is this possible?

It's pretty much not. Talk to them and find out what piece of their puzzle you are missing. Maybe they did a co-op program and therefore are not really quite "entry level". Maybe that includes overtime or hazard pay or other allowances. Maybe they have another degree or certification besides just a BS.

The only entry-level BS engineers that get $100k (or an exemplary salesman) are in chemical/petroleum engineering:
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/entry-level-chemical-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,29.htmhttps://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/entry-level-petroleum-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,30.htm
...and there's generally some qualifiers on that, such as the company shipping you to an oil rig or Montana.

 

[pi-r8]

It's pretty much not. Talk to them and find out what piece of their puzzle you are missing. Maybe they did a co-op program and therefore are not really quite "entry level". Maybe that includes overtime or hazard pay or other allowances. Maybe they have another degree or certification besides just a BS.

The only entry-level BS engineers that get $100k (or an exemplary salesman) are in chemical/petroleum engineering:
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/entry-level-chemical-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,29.htmhttps://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/entry-level-petroleum-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,30.htm
...and there's generally some qualifiers on that, such as the company shipping you to an oil rig or Montana.

$100k+ starting salaries are pretty normal if you get a software engineering job in the bay area:
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/...ngineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,43.htm
I've heard that Google is $140k these days. You don't have to work overtime on an oil rig, you just have to have a computer science degree and interview well. Amazing what a difference it makes getting a degree in something that's in demand, instead of just academic.

 

[gleem]

Amazing what a difference it makes getting a degree in something that's in demand, instead of just academic.

What you have demonstrated what you are capable of or what someone thinks your are capable of. Supply and demand reigns and always will.

 

[PCJJSBS]

I started applying to jobs a year before I graduated with my Physics B.S. (and a 'focus' in Material Science). I got a few interviews for different engineering jobs and even more with adjuster jobs at insurance companies. I applied to pretty much anything I thought my skills would be useful for. I got an interview at Northrop Grumman. Them, Honeywell, and other similar places hire B.S. physicists. I ended up getting really lucky and landed a well paid internship at the only science based company within 250 miles of my small city ( I was initially denied, but a week later I got a call offering me another position because someone had quit). After about a year of that, I was promoted to 'Device Development Engineer'. I work in nanoparticles and printed electronics. My GPA sucked, and I had no science or programming experience outside of my Physics curriculum.

To summarize, it is possible to get a job with a B.S. in Physics... but you need to try and supplement your schooling with programming and anything else you see as beneficial. You need to be open to working somewhere where you do no Physics, you need to be GREAT at interviews, and most of all, you need to be pretty lucky.

 

[Zap]

That sounds cool. My plan of taking a bunch of computer science courses my last semester back fired, and I'm getting at least one C because of that, maybe a D. The thing is, the entire class was easy until about two or three weeks before the end of the semester. Than the dude assigned a programming assignment in PHP and HTML, which I do not have the background knowledge to complete. I ended up installing a virus and destroying my laptop trying to do that project. It took me almost 1 week of little to no sleep on a lab desktop, turned it in late, and still got like a 30% on it. So, yea, it fugged me up pretty bad. Went from a B to a D at the last week of school, and now the semester is over. I don't think it was quite fair considering my group members dropped the class and I was missing prereqs, but life isn't fair and the majority of the time sucks.

 

[symbolipoint]

The post #45 from Zap:

A student may at times find that a course or class occasionally gives insufficient instruction on some topic, so this is in effect a prerequisite inadequacy within the course. Not always happens, but can and at times does.

Using C.S. courses as a way to prepare for the future is good . Overloading on such courses in any single semester is bad.

 

[Zap]

Well, you kind of have to overload if you're trying to complete a degree program and want to take more classes outside of it. I didn't think taking intro to C++, intro to Java, intro to R, intro to Python, etc would be very beneficial, so I had to take more advanced classes. Since I struggled in the higher level courses, maybe I'm not cut out to be a programmer.

 

[symbolipoint]

Well, you kind of have to overload if you're trying to complete a degree program and want to take more classes outside of it. I didn't think taking intro to C++, intro to Java, intro to R, intro to Python, etc would be very beneficial, so I had to take more advanced classes. Since I struggled in the higher level courses, maybe I'm not cut out to be a programmer.

Maybe you can not be so sure based on that. Anything comes between higher level courses and the introductory courses? Maybe you also overloaded yourself without giving yourself the time? You are maybe the person who can best figure that out.

 

[Zap]

Maybe you can not be so sure based on that. Anything comes between higher level courses and the introductory courses? Maybe you also overloaded yourself without giving yourself the time? You are maybe the person who can best figure that out.

I'm honestly not sure what happened. Everything was going along fine until the last couple weeks of school. I guess I just got a bit burned out or lazy. I know I could have done better, but I didn't. I guess I'll take it as a learning experience. I'm not getting a D, but probably a C. So, I'll still be able to graduate. But, yea, I wouldn't recommend trying to load up on computer science courses. It's probably better to take some intro classes and maintain a good GPA. It might be better to get into programming as a hobby than take extra classes in it. What I did was doable, but it was really stressful and I dropped the ball, so to speak, at the very end.

I don't totally regret it, because I did learn more about programming and databases, but it may have been possible to learn that stuff at my own pace outside of class. I think you could potentially learn more outside of the class. Like in AI, we went over neural networks for about 1 day. We spent like two months on logic, though. It's probably better to save your money and your health and learn it yourself as a hobby.

 

[symbolipoint]

It might be better to get into programming as a hobby than take extra classes in it. What I did was doable, but it was really stressful and I dropped the ball, so to speak, at the very end.

I don't totally regret it, because I did learn more about programming and databases, but it may have been possible to learn that stuff at my own pace outside of class. I think you could potentially learn more outside of the class. Like in AI, we went over neural networks for about 1 day. We spent like two months on logic, though. It's probably better to save your money and your health and learn it yourself as a hobby.

Maybe that's the thing to do if you are running out of time before graduating. You did, I thought, say you were good at making programs. Continuing to give yourself your own personal projects would keep yourself in good practice. You might later return to school for maybe some course which uses your already taken courses as prerequisite, so you might learn from some intermediate course not-yet taken.

My own path was to do only one introductory programming course, became scared for doing poorly (but earned grade of C), and not enrolling in any more computer programming courses - but several years later, started back just as a hobby; this way, I was able to learn to do some of what was so difficult when I had been student. Any actual programming "experience" came from the hobby. Even the many useful programs I made were done AFTER I could have used any when no longer in the kind of work/jobs in which I might have wanted those programs. If I had such skills in that earlier employment, things might have gone differently (like maybe better) for me.

 

[Zap]

Maybe that's the thing to do if you are running out of time before graduating. You did, I thought, say you were good at making programs. Continuing to give yourself your own personal projects would keep yourself in good practice. You might later return to school for maybe some course which uses your already taken courses as prerequisite, so you might learn from some intermediate course not-yet taken.

My own path was to do only one introductory programming course, became scared for doing poorly (but earned grade of C), and not enrolling in any more computer programming courses - but several years later, started back just as a hobby; this way, I was able to learn to do some of what was so difficult when I had been student. Any actual programming "experience" came from the hobby. Even the many useful programs I made were done AFTER I could have used any when no longer in the kind of work/jobs in which I might have wanted those programs. If I had such skills in that earlier employment, things might have gone differently (like maybe better) for me.

I took one introductory programming course and got an A. Then, I took two graduate level programming courses and another introductory programming course. The intro class was really easy, and actually the grad level courses weren't really that hard, either. I just have a bad habit of turning stuff in late and not studying for tests. This is common place in the physics department, but in the computer science department, they nail you for it. They took off 20% for turning a homework in one hour late. I got negative like 66% on a homework for being two days late. Meanwhile, in the physics department, I turn homework in a week late and no points are taken off. I don't know if that only happens in my physics department. The physics professors here are extremely lenient when it comes to due dates. The CS professors apparently are not. I messed up that one programming project because of a combination of starting it late, turning it in late, all my team members dropping and not having the prerequisites, but I got it done, for the most part, and the professor was a little bit lenient and passed me with a C. The class is database management in SQL, so I think it will still help me, despite getting a C.

 

[symbolipoint]

Zap, at least you now know how to administer yourself better.

Different departments at various schools will have their own more or less related policies. Physics department where I attended especially for the Phys 1 students (Physics series for scientist & engineer students) were REQUIRED on homework, to use specified style of paper; fully write every problem description, write all numbers as assigned variables, draw figure picture or diagram and label all its parts, show all relevant principle equations, solve the problem numerically, (also show all steps), show the formula for the solution, and only then to substitute the given known values, and evaluate the or compute the result. Students were required to follow that outline in order to receive credit. Even more - students were required to do a certain quantity of their homework assignments or would not be permitted to take course examinations. Still more - homework counted as , I forgot exactly, between 10% or 20% of the course grade.

Beginner programming students? They learned about variables, making variable tables, and creating flowcharts for the development of programming exercises (including those for homework exercises). All homework assignment exercises were required to show variables list, variable-data table, flow chart, and the finished program code, otherwise no credit. If student had a question asking for help, then teacher asked to see variable table & flowchart, otherwise no give help.

These guys were not fooling around!

 

[Zap]

That sounds horrible.

 

[symbolipoint]

(I have been trying to make this posted response but forum not let me stay logged-in...)

They had good reasons.

Too many students with ask-for-help questions, and the need for students to work hard to learn, operate in an organized way to learn to study&work reliably; learn to analyze and think(students responsibilities for their study and any possible later work/employment).

 

[Zap]

I just want to throw this in here: Since I've graduated like three days ago with an MS in physics, my job hunting pursuits have gained a lot more attention. I've not had any offers yet, but I've been getting a lot of emails and second step requests, which I didn't previously. The reason for this I think is that I am applying to different kinds of jobs than I had in the past, and a lot more of them.

For example, when I applied to R&D positions with the DOD, I would spend sometimes days on my resume, and applied to only a few positions, because only a few positions were available, and waited like 3 months to hear back, only to find out the position was closed or that I wasn't selected. Now, I am applying to hundreds of jobs at a time that are hiring immediately. Some are science related, some are not science related. At this point, I am kind of interested in trying something that is not science related.

I am beginning to think that it is definitely possible to get a job with a physics degree. You just have to be a little bit creative and decide one, two or three specific things that you want as a career. I think many grads, like myself, graduate and do not know what they want to do and therefore end up aimlessly applying to jobs in which they probably don't make a notable impression. I would recommend not focusing purely on R&D and DOD jobs, because they are never immediately hiring. So, the question, "what do I do now?" is not ours to answer. You have a lot of options, and you have to figure that out. I don't think the world is holding us back. I'll report back of my success or failure.

 

[Zap]

We need to find areas in which people are impressed or value our mathematical skills and potential to learn technical tasks easily.

One position that seems like a pretty easy transition is something like business analyst. They frequently are looking for math and physics majors, and seem to like us just because we have a physics degree. Areas in R&D may also value mathematical skills, but it seems as though the bar is set higher there, so they are usually asking for a lot more than just a degree in physics.

You can potentially get into either of these fields. So far I’ve had some people reaching out to me in both areas. Obviously no offers yet, so this may be premature, but I’m getting a lot more attention than I did previously, and I’m also pumping out like ten to twenty apps a day.

However, I tailored my resume for something like a data analyst and there are so many of these jobs out there that it’s pretty easy to apply to like 50 of them in one day. I’m still applying to jobs in materials science and more physics related stuff as well. There are so many jobs out there. We aught to land one eventually.

 

[Zap]

I had to make a spreadsheet to keep track of all of the jobs I am applying for, because it already happened that someone from HR called me and I had no idea what job they were talking about.

In this day and age, you can actually apply to 100 jobs in one day. What if you could create an algorithm to do it for you, and apply to 1,000,000 per day?

 

[Choppy]

What if you could create an algorithm to do it for you, and apply to 1,000,000 per day?

Then perhaps you shouldn't be applying for jobs at all. Instead, tweak your algorithm to intelligently identify potential customers for a given product or service and start an online marketing business.

 

[Zap]

Check this out. How many jobs do you think are created around the world every day? Probably more than 1,000. I obviously have no idea what the number is. However, we can make an app that connects you to key roles by a well defined list of attributes and constraints matched with a well defined list of requirements that exist across the entire planet. This way, you are guaranteed to be matched with the job that is perfect for you, automatically.

We will no longer search for job titles or even have to think what we should apply to. We just list our attributes and constraints and are automatically matched and applied.

 

[symbolipoint]

I had to make a spreadsheet to keep track of all of the jobs I am applying for, because it already happened that someone from HR called me and I had no idea what job they were talking about.

In this day and age, you can actually apply to 100 jobs in one day. What if you could create an algorithm to do it for you, and apply to 1,000,000 per day?

Then perhaps you shouldn't be applying for jobs at all. Instead, tweak your algorithm to intelligently identify potential customers for a given product or service and start an online marketing business.

The spreadsheet idea is a good one. One should keep good records of job-seek application attempts and any resulting interviews and principal people

If applying to ~ 50 to 100 jobs per day, this is too unfocused, showing lack of care about details and qualifications. At least some of what you apply for may be fine, but not all of it.