# I got kicked out of my University. Do I still have a chance at Grad school?

• Schools
This right here. You expect to go to graduate school when you cant even keep track of the amount of credits your classes are worth. Grow up and get real. Don't even think about going to school until you've figured out a way to get serious about your pursuits.

To tell you the truth, I don't think you're even ready to go to school. Throughout your post you make these poor excuses: "The professor is rigorous", "this class is BS", "my friends failed", etc etc. Do you know how many people care about excuses: nobody who takes there work seriously. Granted, there can be teachers who enjoy tormenting their students. That is a reflection of their inadequacies and it should not translate into your justification for incompetence. Using excuses like these will lead you to failure, inevitably; no matter where you go, no matter what situation. In other words: if you don't accept your responsibilities, you will fail. Your experience with school should have made this very clear to you.

Assuming you have come to the realization I mentioned above, you must now accept your position and work to make BIG changes. For starters: it is absolutely critical that you change your attitude. Failure to acquire a new mindset and outlook towards challenges will result in a total waste of your potential.

Don't believe me? I can tell you about a friend who had a similar attitude your described above and he is happily living in his parents basement, mid 20s, no job, no girlfriend, nothing.

Once you have a new mindset, then it is time to go back to school.
Aero, you are completely right. I know I have been making excuses ,and have been my whole life. Can you give me more details about how to adjust my mindset? And what kind of mindset I should have? i really have no idea.

Read this thread, and WTF? You seriously have thoughts of suicide? More important than school, more important than career or whatever is dealing with that ****. I don't take things like that lightly. 1 800 273 talk

I've called them before, they're wonderful and helpful. I don't know how serious you are, but I always take that kinda stuff seriously.

Anyway, to your question. Leave school. There's NO WAY you're ready for it. Learn about yourself, grow. Get some **** job, work it for a bit. Work will make you appreciate school. Try 8-9 hours of hard, manual labor. Then you realize that sitting in your nice air-conditioned classroom while taking notes for an hour or two isn't that bad. You go home, and read/do a few problems.

It doesn't take that much to pass/get an A. You just need to ACTUALLY GO TO CLASS, then go home and spend a few hours reading/studying. It takes like 3 hours in class a day plus another 3 studying, maybe more if it's around a test, to get a passing grade. That's about 6 hours a day of work. That leaves plenty of time for sleeping, leisure, maybe a part time job (but don't even worry about a part time job right now. If you can't handle both, don't do both). It's really not all that difficult. You just need to do the work. If problems 1-23 are assigned, do all of them, well. If chapters 2-4 are assigned. Read them. Don't skim. Read, and pay attention. Show up to lecture.

If I were you, I'd leave school. I'd go home, be 100% honest with my parents. Try to find a shrink and a job. Lay low for a bit. Live your life for awhile. Blow some of the money you get on frivolous trips.

Honestly, until you're happy and positive, you can't really do well in school.
You are right. I think I should be doing that. Except I have no work experience, so few people will hire me. That is not an excuse; someone will hire me if I search hard enough. But my parents want me to get back on track in school as soon as possible. The university that I got dismissed from said I get to go back if I finish my lower division courses in Physics, chemistry, math, and Biology with a 3.1 or higher at a community college. The nearest community college to my house is very impacted and on the brink of closure. So I have to ride the subway and bus everyday to another city, and the fare will be $11.30 a day. My parents are more than willing to pay that fare for me. They really want me to go back to school as soon as possible. I am motivated, but I don't know if along the road, I will get into depression mode again. Sigh. I don't really know what to do. Plus, my parents said that being late to graduate would give me a huge disadvantage for employment. My mom said that her friend's son graduated a year late and has to settle for jobs he is over qualified for as a result. Is that true that graduating late has such a big effect? And I'm not even sure if I am college material anymore. Yes, I really like to learn. I'm spending a lot of money on books to just read for fun. But do I even have a chance of grad school anymore? Would college even help me in anyway. I don't now why I am saying these things. I know these aren't questions you can answer. I am just venting i guess. Thank you very much for your help, though. It means a lot. Really. And yes, I was serious about the suicide stuff. And thank you for taking it seriously. I should to think people who were suicidal were just craving attention, until suicidal thoughts became my best friend. They make me feel better. I have been feeling better, since my college says I can go back as long as I satisfy the requirements, but sometimes I can't help the thoughts from reoccurring. I have also been depending on a romantic relationship to make me feel better. I felt so desperate for that one person, until I returned to my suicidal thoughts, and then I felt better. Like I didn't need that one person with me. He left me for his ex. I felt horrible at first, but now I came to realize that I was addicted to the feeling of love, and not that person. I just thought you might find that a little interesting lol. But I am glad I didn't commit suicide. My parents know the truth now and are sorely disappointed, but I keep imagining how things would be like if I did commit suicide. Now they can still sit in front of the tv and watch comedies together. Had I committed suicide, they probably wouldn't have. Also, they are scared of letting people know that I got dismissed because it is embarrassing to them, but I think suicide would make them look even worse, as it is something not concealable or reversible. </vent> Most of the time now, I am happy to be alive. I think soon I will get better again. Take your time, go nice and slow and make sure you finish those courses. It is not first to the finish, it is getting what you want out of life. You are right. I think I should be doing that. Except I have no work experience, so few people will hire me. That is not an excuse; someone will hire me if I search hard enough. Not that hard to get a job, just put yourself out there. You gotta apply at quite a few places. Make sure you dress nice, are confident, and yourself. With lower-paying jobs, the important thing is to show that you're not going to be a drag to work with. Anyone can use a cash register or frier or whatever. They care more if you're a drag to work with than anything else. If you can make the guy laugh, you're in. But my parents want me to get back on track in school as soon as possible. The university that I got dismissed from said I get to go back if I finish my lower division courses in Physics, chemistry, math, and Biology with a 3.1 or higher at a community college. The nearest community college to my house is very impacted and on the brink of closure. So I have to ride the subway and bus everyday to another city, and the fare will be$11.30 a day. My parents are more than willing to pay that fare for me. They really want me to go back to school as soon as possible. I am motivated, but I don't know if along the road, I will get into depression mode again. Sigh. I don't really know what to do.
You are not yet an adult, but you are making the transition. It's not what your parents want, it's what YOU want. You have to understand that you can do literally ANYTHING you want. You can go and get a PhD in physics and be some brilliant researcher. You can work crap jobs for the rest of your life. You can learn a trade and do that. You can sell crack. You can rob banks. You can hop boxcars and hitchhike across the country/world.You have an infinite number of opportunities.

Plus, my parents said that being late to graduate would give me a huge disadvantage for employment. My mom said that her friend's son graduated a year late and has to settle for jobs he is over qualified for as a result. Is that true that graduating late has such a big effect?
wat. Places don't look at how long it took you to graduate. A lot of engineers take 5 years.

And I'm not even sure if I am college material anymore. Yes, I really like to learn. I'm spending a lot of money on books to just read for fun. But do I even have a chance of grad school anymore? Would college even help me in anyway.
"College material" doesn't mean anything. It's just work you need to put in.

I don't now why I am saying these things. I know these aren't questions you can answer. I am just venting i guess. Thank you very much for your help, though. It means a lot. Really.

And yes, I was serious about the suicide stuff. And thank you for taking it seriously. I should to think people who were suicidal were just craving attention, until suicidal thoughts became my best friend. They make me feel better.

I have been feeling better, since my college says I can go back as long as I satisfy the requirements, but sometimes I can't help the thoughts from reoccurring.
Honestly, talk to a shrink. Shrinks are wonderful. I've seen a few. I've had suicidal thoughts. Shrinks will help you out a lot, sort some stuff out. Don't think that it makes you weak, or that "something is wrong with you". Everyone needs a little help now and again. It's more important to deal with these thoughts than to deal with school.

I have also been depending on a romantic relationship to make me feel better. I felt so desperate for that one person, until I returned to my suicidal thoughts, and then I felt better. Like I didn't need that one person with me. He left me for his ex. I felt horrible at first, but now I came to realize that I was addicted to the feeling of love, and not that person. I just thought you might find that a little interesting lol.
Nah, that ain't love.

I know a lot of people the same way. I don't have much advice or to say, cause I hate (romantic) relationships. Friendships are important to me. But romantic relationships suck.

But this isn't about me, it's about you. I think this is just secondary, honestly.

But I am glad I didn't commit suicide. My parents know the truth now and are sorely disappointed, but I keep imagining how things would be like if I did commit suicide. Now they can still sit in front of the tv and watch comedies together. Had I committed suicide, they probably wouldn't have. Also, they are scared of letting people know that I got dismissed because it is embarrassing to them, but I think suicide would make them look even worse, as it is something not concealable or reversible.

</vent>
Most of the time now, I am happy to be alive. I think soon I will get better again.
I'm glad too. Killing yourself would be pretty lame. Don't do that.

Not that hard to get a job, just put yourself out there. You gotta apply at quite a few places. Make sure you dress nice, are confident, and yourself. With lower-paying jobs, the important thing is to show that you're not going to be a drag to work with. Anyone can use a cash register or frier or whatever. They care more if you're a drag to work with than anything else. If you can make the guy laugh, you're in.

You are not yet an adult, but you are making the transition. It's not what your parents want, it's what YOU want. You have to understand that you can do literally ANYTHING you want. You can go and get a PhD in physics and be some brilliant researcher. You can work crap jobs for the rest of your life. You can learn a trade and do that. You can sell crack. You can rob banks. You can hop boxcars and hitchhike across the country/world.You have an infinite number of opportunities.

wat. Places don't look at how long it took you to graduate. A lot of engineers take 5 years.

"College material" doesn't mean anything. It's just work you need to put in.

Honestly, talk to a shrink. Shrinks are wonderful. I've seen a few. I've had suicidal thoughts. Shrinks will help you out a lot, sort some stuff out. Don't think that it makes you weak, or that "something is wrong with you". Everyone needs a little help now and again. It's more important to deal with these thoughts than to deal with school.

Nah, that ain't love.

I know a lot of people the same way. I don't have much advice or to say, cause I hate (romantic) relationships. Friendships are important to me. But romantic relationships suck.

But this isn't about me, it's about you. I think this is just secondary, honestly.

I'm glad too. Killing yourself would be pretty lame. Don't do that.
Please tell me more about why you feel that way. I agree. Romantic relationships do suck. The logical part of me says to stay away from them, especially while still in school. But I guess my instincts or whatever part of my brain that gives these irrational urges crave something romantic. Please tell me why you think romantic relationships suck, so I can keep myself away from them. How do you keep yourself away from them albeit your instincts want you to find a romantic partner (evolution wants us to just feed ourselves and mate, so it's quite hard for most people to stay away from romantic relationships). How do you say "no" to the ecstasy of romantic love?

I know that I am using romantic love to hide a self esteem issue that I have. I think it is because knowing that someone likes me makes me feel worthy, and if nobody liked me in a romantic way, I wouldn't feel worthy. I know this is not healthy. I really want to stop. There was a point in the middle of my freshmen year where I could not focus because I was addicted to this one boy who was no good for me at all. I just kept going on this cycle that I couldn't stop because I was so addicted... one boy after another after another.... It's getting better now. I've forced myself to stop. I've read some articles on the topic to understand my emotions and behaviors. But I'm interested in knowing why you think romantic relationships suck. That's interesting to hear. Few people will say that; romantic love is so overrated in our society.

Thanks for your help. I have spoken to a shrink before, and he didn't help much. He meant well, but all he did was just sit there and listened to me attentively. When I asked for advice, there wasn't much he had to say. He just said, "I don't know." I guess he thought it would be best to be a good listener, but if I only wanted that, I would stay home to talk to my wall.

What I do think helps a little bit, however, is reading self help books. I bought books about willpower, procrastination, and habits. I want to understand my behaviors so I can change them.

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Please tell me more about why you feel that way. I agree. Romantic relationships do suck. The logical part of me says to stay away from them, especially while still in school. But I guess my instincts or whatever part of my brain that gives these irrational urges crave something romantic. Please tell me why you think romantic relationships suck, so I can keep myself away from them. How do you keep yourself away from them albeit your instincts want you to find a romantic partner (evolution wants us to just feed ourselves and mate, so it's quite hard for most people to stay away from romantic relationships). How do you say "no" to the ecstasy of romantic love?

I know that I am using romantic love to hide a self esteem issue that I have. I think it is because knowing that someone likes me makes me feel worthy, and if nobody liked me in a romantic way, I wouldn't feel worthy. I know this is not healthy. I really want to stop. There was a point in the middle of my freshmen year where I could not focus because I was addicted to this one boy who was no good for me at all. I just kept going on this cycle that I couldn't stop because I was so addicted... one boy after another after another.... It's getting better now. I've forced myself to stop. I've read some articles on the topic to understand my emotions and behaviors. But I'm interested in knowing why you think romantic relationships suck. That's interesting to hear. Few people will say that; romantic love is so overrated in our society.

Thanks for your help. I have spoken to a shrink before, and he didn't help much. He meant well, but all he did was just sit there and listened to me attentively. When I asked for advice, there wasn't much he had to say. He just said, "I don't know." I guess he thought it would be best to be a good listener, but if I only wanted that, I would stay home to talk to my wall.

What I do think helps a little bit, however, is reading self help books. I bought books about willpower, procrastination, and habits. I want to understand my behaviors so I can change them.
I've had garbagety shrinks and I've had good shrinks. I had one shrink who did exactly what you said. It's one approach, but it's one that I find rarely works. My good shrink challenged me. It was hard work going to her. She asked me questions about my life and when I would give answers, she would ask me very difficult questions. She helped out a ton. Try a couple, see how they work. A good shrink will challenge you. Make you think harder than you ever have.

As for romantic relationships. I just never really cared for them. It's not something you can force. It's not that I say no to "the ecstasy of romantic love", I just never really got any pleasure from it. Again, not about me, this is about you. If a guy is cool and everything, go ahead. But don't feel like you need to. You need to be happy how you are. If you feel like relationships are a source of suffering in your life, change that. Change how you approach them.

I got kicked out of my University. Should I still invest farther time and money to get a college education? Do I still have a shot at Graduate school?
Impossible to tell. But I'd avoid going back immediately, and figure out what went wrong before going back. First of all try to figure out why you want to go to college and why you want to go to graduate school.

Or should I just go straight into the work force? I would have to do fast food, jumba juice, and the like. But hey, beggars can't be choosers.
This is what worries me..... You almost certainly will have difficulties getting exactly what you want. If you try to go into neuroscience, you may do less well than you want, you may find out that you hate neuroscience. There are thousands of things that will go wrong. If you end up in college, and find out that your grades in neuroscience are awful, but you figure out that you can salvage what you have and get something useful out, then it might be worth the effort.

If you are in a "neuroscience or nothing" situation then this is extremely dangerous, and you are likely better off not trying.

I'm asking if i go attend a community college, then transfer to a four year university to retake all the classes that I have failed, graduate with an undergraduate degree in Biochemistry, minor in Psychology, would I still have a chance of getting into a Neuroscience graduate program. And are these chances very slim?
These aren't lottery tickets.

The question often comes up if I've gotten "F"'s in the last two years, can I get in if I get all "A"'s from now on. The trouble with that question is that there's no honest reason to expect that you *will* get A's from now on.

Even if everything goes O.K., you are likely to be "average" and if "average" isn't good enough then you'll be really sunk.

Personally, I would *NOT* to back to school with the expectation that you are going to do something extraordinary. I'd also take things one step at a time. If you manage to get back to school *and merely pass* at that point you can take a look at where you are and figure out where to go next. If you go back and your goal is totally unrealistic, then if *anything* goes wrong, then you are going to have a crisis, and *something will go wrong*.

Also before you commit to any sort of graduate program, you need to be really sure that you want to do it. You may end up hating neuroscience once you find out what it's really about, and you need to find that out sooner than later.

One thing about excuses that make them useless is that if you really have no options, then
there's no point in discussing the issue. If someone is *forcing* you to study neuroscience, then you just have to do it knowing full well that it's going to blow up.

You are right. I think I should be doing that. Except I have no work experience, so few people will hire me.
You just need one.

But my parents want me to get back on track in school as soon as possible. The university that I got dismissed from said I get to go back if I finish my lower division courses in Physics, chemistry, math, and Biology with a 3.1 or higher at a community college. The nearest community college to my house is very impacted and on the brink of closure. So I have to ride the subway and bus everyday to another city, and the fare will be \$11.30 a day. My parents are more than willing to pay that fare for me. They really want me to go back to school as soon as possible. I am motivated, but I don't know if along the road, I will get into depression mode again. Sigh. I don't really know what to do.
1) You may have to have an uncomfortable conversation with your parents. Also I've found that in a lot of situations, people assume their parents want them to do X, when it turns out that the only reason their parents seem to want them to do X is because they assume that they want to do X. Or maybe not.

2) At some point down the road, you *will* get into depression mode again. Your neurochemistry is not going to spontaneously change, so if you've had bouts of depression before, you should assume that it will happen again. It's like planning for hurricanes in Florida or earthquakes in California.

3) Try *not* to make any decisions. Being emotional is the worst time to make major life decisions. Rather than thinking about the long term future, figure out what you can do to make your life better next month.

Plus, my parents said that being late to graduate would give me a huge disadvantage for employment. My mom said that her friend's son graduated a year late and has to settle for jobs he is over qualified for as a result. Is that true that graduating late has such a big effect?
I don't think it really matters.

I should to think people who were suicidal were just craving attention, until suicidal thoughts became my best friend. They make me feel better.
Do whatever you need to do. If thinking about suicide makes you feel better and less likely to commit suicide, then do that.

But it's also pretty important that you find someone that you can talk to about what you are thinking. The trouble with these sorts of thoughts is that most people react to "I'm thinking about killing myself" by "don't do that". Therapists tend to react to "I'm thinking about killing myself" by "please talk about those thoughts."

However, you should have a safety net, and don't be afraid to check yourself into the hospital if you are actually in a dangerous situation. Better yet, you need to have some close friends that will drag you into the nearest hospital if they think you are in a dangerous situation.

One reason that I'm worried about you is that "unrealistic goals" + "depression" is a very dangerous combination. If you go back to school and everything falls apart and you can laugh about it, then I wouldn't be so worried.

Something that some people find useful is to think of school as a form of therapy. It's not uncommon to find people interested in neuroscience in order to deal with there own conditions, and there are a lot of psychiarists and therapists that go into the field to deal with their own issues.

Can you give me more details about how to adjust my mindset? And what kind of mindset I should have? i really have no idea.
I cant tell you what kind of mindset you should have - that is completely a question that should be answered within yourself. If you want to change, I can give you an idea what steps you should take. The most important thing is that you need to want to change for your sake. Your motives should be yours solely. If you are ready:

You must first accept and identify the mistakes you have made. Ask yourself these questions:
Why did I fail my classes? What could I have done to prevent the situation I have arrived at? If I knew I wasn't doing well, why did I let myself fail my classes? And any others you feel are necessary to help understand your predicament in full. Answering these questions honestly will provide some insight into yourself. When you know yourself better, you will have more control over your life.

I wont go into details about the next steps, but I will outline them so you have an idea where you are going:

Next, accept that you have made mistakes and COMMIT to not making them again.
Take this commitment seriously; as if you were getting married to the man of your dreams.

Once you have accepted your situation and chosen to change it, it is now time to ask yourself what steps can you make to change.

Now that you have some idea of the things you need to do...DO THEM! Take action, get results.

Finally, when you a ready, when you have acquired the tools necessary to take on whatever challenges may come your way, pursue your dreams/goals/ambitions.

This process is nonlinear and will not take less than 2 years to fully complete. Don't worry, some issues you will be able to resolve very quickly while others will take some time, maybe years. It's worth the self investment to learn about yourself. If you truly wish to change your habits it will require you to push yourself mentally. You may not be able to do everything on your own; this is ok, just make sure whoever is helping you knows what they are doing. Be patient, this will take time. Don't pressure yourself to hurry through the above process either. This will result in unnecessary and irrational anxiety.

One last remark:
If you need help you can ask me. My life has been eventful and I'd like to share the knowledge/tools/experience I've acquired over the years with those who need advice.

One thing about excuses that make them useless is that if you really have no options, then
there's no point in discussing the issue. If someone is *forcing* you to study neuroscience, then you just have to do it knowing full well that it's going to blow up.

You just need one.

1) You may have to have an uncomfortable conversation with your parents. Also I've found that in a lot of situations, people assume their parents want them to do X, when it turns out that the only reason their parents seem to want them to do X is because they assume that they want to do X. Or maybe not.

2) At some point down the road, you *will* get into depression mode again. Your neurochemistry is not going to spontaneously change, so if you've had bouts of depression before, you should assume that it will happen again. It's like planning for hurricanes in Florida or earthquakes in California.

3) Try *not* to make any decisions. Being emotional is the worst time to make major life decisions. Rather than thinking about the long term future, figure out what you can do to make your life better next month.

I don't think it really matters.

Do whatever you need to do. If thinking about suicide makes you feel better and less likely to commit suicide, then do that.

But it's also pretty important that you find someone that you can talk to about what you are thinking. The trouble with these sorts of thoughts is that most people react to "I'm thinking about killing myself" by "don't do that". Therapists tend to react to "I'm thinking about killing myself" by "please talk about those thoughts."

However, you should have a safety net, and don't be afraid to check yourself into the hospital if you are actually in a dangerous situation. Better yet, you need to have some close friends that will drag you into the nearest hospital if they think you are in a dangerous situation.

One reason that I'm worried about you is that "unrealistic goals" + "depression" is a very dangerous combination. If you go back to school and everything falls apart and you can laugh about it, then I wouldn't be so worried.

Something that some people find useful is to think of school as a form of therapy. It's not uncommon to find people interested in neuroscience in order to deal with there own conditions, and there are a lot of psychiarists and therapists that go into the field to deal with their own issues.
To laugh about it? Is that really possible? As someone who is interested in psychology and Neuroscience, I have read about the benefits of humor and laughter. But to laugh about something as serious as flunking school? Wouldn't I have to not take my education seriously in order to laugh about failure in school? Wouldn't my education and potential career be of little importance to me in order for me to laugh about it?

Thanks for your advice and help. I will keep them in mind. :)

I cant tell you what kind of mindset you should have - that is completely a question that should be answered within yourself. If you want to change, I can give you an idea what steps you should take. The most important thing is that you need to want to change for your sake. Your motives should be yours solely. If you are ready:

You must first accept and identify the mistakes you have made. Ask yourself these questions:
Why did I fail my classes? What could I have done to prevent the situation I have arrived at? If I knew I wasn't doing well, why did I let myself fail my classes? And any others you feel are necessary to help understand your predicament in full. Answering these questions honestly will provide some insight into yourself. When you know yourself better, you will have more control over your life.

I wont go into details about the next steps, but I will outline them so you have an idea where you are going:

Next, accept that you have made mistakes and COMMIT to not making them again.
Take this commitment seriously; as if you were getting married to the man of your dreams.

Once you have accepted your situation and chosen to change it, it is now time to ask yourself what steps can you make to change.

Now that you have some idea of the things you need to do...DO THEM! Take action, get results.

Finally, when you a ready, when you have acquired the tools necessary to take on whatever challenges may come your way, pursue your dreams/goals/ambitions.

This process is nonlinear and will not take less than 2 years to fully complete. Don't worry, some issues you will be able to resolve very quickly while others will take some time, maybe years. It's worth the self investment to learn about yourself. If you truly wish to change your habits it will require you to push yourself mentally. You may not be able to do everything on your own; this is ok, just make sure whoever is helping you knows what they are doing. Be patient, this will take time. Don't pressure yourself to hurry through the above process either. This will result in unnecessary and irrational anxiety.

One last remark:
If you need help you can ask me. My life has been eventful and I'd like to share the knowledge/tools/experience I've acquired over the years with those who need advice.
Thank you. It means a lot, really. :)

But to laugh about something as serious as flunking school? Wouldn't I have to not take my education seriously in order to laugh about failure in school?
People deal with some pretty serious topics by laughing about it, and trying to find the humor (and sometimes it turns out to be sick dark humor) is sometimes the only way you can mentally survive.

One other thing. You might come from a family in which like mine education is the most important thing in the world. It helps sometimes to look at people for which this is *not* true. They probably are not on this list. I know of people that make minimum wage, have no education, but they are happier than I ever will be.