I have a free body diagram that I have drawn to describe my problem of dry ice in a bottle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of dry ice in a bottle, particularly focusing on the conversion of dry ice to carbon dioxide and its implications for a free body diagram (FBD). Participants explore the physical processes involved, including sublimation and buoyancy, while considering the complexities of modeling these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant initially misstates that dry ice is converted into dry ice, later clarifying that it converts into carbon dioxide.
  • Another participant draws an analogy between a water-iceberg and a dry-iceberg, discussing the processes of sublimation and the displacement of air by CO2 gas.
  • There is a suggestion that the FBD should account for the changing mass of icebergs due to melting or subliming while being buoyant in varying density fluids.
  • A participant notes that their FBD does not currently include the ice formed from freezing water but acknowledges it should be included for a more accurate model.
  • Discussion includes the behavior of dry ice in water, mentioning that larger pieces sink while smaller pieces may float due to gas bubbles, leading to fog formation.
  • There is a recommendation to clarify the purpose of the FBD and what aspects of the system are being modeled.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the complexities involved in modeling the system with an FBD. There is no consensus on the best approach or the necessity of including certain elements in the diagram.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need to consider additional factors such as the formation of ice from freezing water and the buoyancy effects of gas bubbles, which may complicate the FBD. There are unresolved questions regarding the modeling choices and assumptions made about the system.

tremain74
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Homework Statement
I have a problem where you have a plastic bottle of dry ice. As you put warm water into the bottle, dry ice is converted into dry ice. I want to see if my free body diagram makes any kind of logical sense.
Relevant Equations
I used Newton's second law of motion: Force = mass * acceleration.
This is my attached picture.

PXL_20240522_235104888.jpg
 
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tremain74 said:
dry ice is converted into dry ice
Doesn't sound like a very interesting conversion. The process would be "do nothing".
 
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phinds said:
Doesn't sound like a very interesting conversion. The process would be "do nothing".
Actually, I meant that the dry ice is converted into carbon dioxide. My apology.
 
A water-iceberg, floating in a liquid sea of salt solution, is converted into a smaller iceberg, and a more dilute, cooler liquid ocean.

A dry-iceberg floating in warm water, is converted into CO2 that escapes, and cooler water that eventually may partly freeze, then thaw.
The more dense CO2 gas, first displaces the air, then overflows the bottle.
The dry-iceberg cannot be coated in water ice, because that is pushed off by the CO2 sublimed.

Is your FBD modelling icebergs, that are changing their mass by melting or subliming, while floating and being buoyant in changing density fluids?
 
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Baluncore said:
A water-iceberg, floating in a liquid sea of salt solution, is converted into a smaller iceberg, and a more dilute, cooler liquid ocean.

A dry-iceberg floating in warm water, is converted into CO2 that escapes, and cooler water that eventually may partly freeze, then thaw.
The more dense CO2 gas, first displaces the air, then overflows the bottle.
The dry-iceberg cannot be coated in water ice, because that is pushed off by the CO2 sublimed.

Is your FBD modelling icebergs, that are changing their mass by melting or subliming, while floating and being buoyant in changing density fluids?
My free body diagram doesn't include the ice that comes as a result of water that will eventually freeze. However, in reality, I definitely have to include the ice in the fbd as well.
 
tremain74 said:
However, in reality, I definitely have to include the ice in the fbd as well.
A wet ice lump, floating in a glass of cold water, will gradually melt, but the water level in the glass will stay practically the same throughout the process.

Big bits of dry ice sink in water. Small bits also sink, but then float as they sublime, as they are buoyed up by the attached gas bubbles. A fog will form near the surface of the water. Your FBD will need a little more complexity.

Maybe you should first decide why you need an FBD, or what you are trying to model.
 
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