I need some kind of propellant gas for an experiment

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the challenges of sourcing Isobutane for experiments due to its unavailability on platforms like Amazon and AliExpress. The user is exploring alternative propellant gases, including HFC-227ea, Butane, and an Isobutane/Propane blend, each with specific properties and potential risks. The user seeks guidance on the safety and availability of these alternatives, as well as information on the legality of Isobutane in the US. Recommendations include contacting local distributors or businesses that service refrigeration systems for potential sources of Isobutane.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of propellant gas properties, including vapor pressure and boiling points.
  • Familiarity with chemical safety and toxicity levels of gases like HFC-227ea and Butane.
  • Knowledge of sourcing industrial gases and navigating supplier networks.
  • Basic understanding of refrigeration systems and their components.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the properties and safety data sheets for HFC-227ea and Butane.
  • Investigate local suppliers of industrial gases, particularly those servicing refrigeration systems.
  • Explore the legality and regulations surrounding the sale of Isobutane in the US.
  • Learn about the risks associated with using an Isobutane/Propane blend in experiments.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for experimental chemists, hobbyists in gas propulsion, and anyone involved in sourcing or utilizing propellant gases for scientific experiments.

PRIDES
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For the past year or so, I've been experimenting with Isobutane. I used to get it in relatively cheap canisters of r600a from amazon.com and AliExpress, and that worked fine. Now, however, AliExpress has NO purchase options for r600a, and amazon.com will not ship it to the US, even though they used to do it for me. This is really bugging me. I cannot find any information about the laws of isobutane in the US, at all. Has it been banned? I don't know. Either way, I need something to replace it for my experiments if I can't find a place that sells it.

The kind of gas I'm looking for is one that can be sold in small canisters at a relatively cheap price, not big cylinders. I want it to have a vapor pressure of at least 30 psi (~200 kpa) and have a boiling point of around 0°-30°F (not near room temperature). As you can see from these conditions, Isobutane was absolutely perfect. But, now that I can't get it anymore, so these are the gases I've looked at.

HFC-227ea - Looks promising. It is not very toxic. I'm not using high temperatures, so is it a big issue that it can turn into hydrogen fluoride at high temperatures? Another problem is I can't find it sold in small canisters. I think it is the propellant in some Inhaler cartridges? But if I get it in the inhaler cartridges, it would also have the medicine in it too, right? That might be a problem.

Butane - Looks equally great. It has a boiling point of about 32°F, a little high but I'm willing to look past it if its my last option. It is sold in canisters (as fuel, kinda iffy). I don't plan on lighting it on fire, but there's always the risk. Then again, there was that risk with isobutane also. Its easy to get, and I doubt it'll disappear like r600a. Two questions: Is the inhalation risk bigger than it was with isobutane? And should I be worried that If it did catch on fire, nitrogen dioxide would be created?

Isobutane/Propane Blend - This is also very available. It is fuel of course, and it is a blend, so I can't find any information on what temperature and pressure it condenses at, but I'm willing to try if someone else says it might work. I don't like the propane part, but in some cases that's only 20%, but it does have a bigger health hazard than isobutane.

This is just a compilation of facts that I've put together. I thank anyone who took the time to read all that stuff, and especially thank those who have something to add (and if anyone knows a way to get back to buying isobutane like I used to, it would be much appreciated).
 
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Did you try mountaineering shops or the store locator of gas providers like campingaz?
 
DrDu said:
Did you try mountaineering shops or the store locator of gas providers like campingaz?
I checked it out. It has something called isobutane mix which I'm guessing is the isobutane/propane stuff, but it doesn't look like they sell from their website and the nearest store is two states away.
 
PRIDES said:
I checked it out. It has something called isobutane mix which I'm guessing is the isobutane/propane stuff, but it doesn't look like they sell from their website and the nearest store is two states away.
The properties of R600a are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isobutane

http://www.tecumseh.com/~/media/North-America/Files/Guidelines-and-Manuals/Refrigerant-Documentation_North-America/Tecumseh-Guidelines-for-Utilization-of-R600A-and-R290.pdf

Isobutane is supplied by companies like Linde and others who are in the business of industrial gas supply.

http://www.linde-gas.com/en/products_and_supply/refrigerants/natural_refrigerants/R600a_isobutane/index.html

If you are in the States, IDK why you went all the way to the UK to get this stuff.
 
SteamKing said:
The properties of R600a are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isobutane

http://www.tecumseh.com/~/media/North-America/Files/Guidelines-and-Manuals/Refrigerant-Documentation_North-America/Tecumseh-Guidelines-for-Utilization-of-R600A-and-R290.pdf

Isobutane is supplied by companies like Linde and others who are in the business of industrial gas supply.

http://www.linde-gas.com/en/products_and_supply/refrigerants/natural_refrigerants/R600a_isobutane/index.html

If you are in the States, IDK why you went all the way to the UK to get this stuff.
How do I buy from Linde? I don't see how.

EDIT: They have 0 locations in the US
 
PRIDES said:
How do I buy from Linde? I don't see how.

EDIT: They have 0 locations in the US
Linde is one of the biggest suppliers of industrial gases in the US. You see their trucks hauling product all over the roads.

Here is the website for their US subsidiary:

http://www.lindeus.com/en/index.html

You may not be able to buy from Linde directly, but odds are they will supply local distributors and retailers. It might take a bit of detective work, maybe even a trip through the yellow pages, but if you live near any reasonably sized city in the US, someone is going to be using oxygen, acetylene, nitrogen, etc.

R600a was once used as a refrigerant. If there are any businesses which sell or service air conditioners or industrial refrigeration systems in your area, call them. They may be able to furnish you with a supplier contact if they can't help you directly.
 
SteamKing said:
Linde is one of the biggest suppliers of industrial gases in the US. You see their trucks hauling product all over the roads.

Here is the website for their US subsidiary:

http://www.lindeus.com/en/index.html

You may not be able to buy from Linde directly, but odds are they will supply local distributors and retailers. It might take a bit of detective work, maybe even a trip through the yellow pages, but if you live near any reasonably sized city in the US, someone is going to be using oxygen, acetylene, nitrogen, etc.

R600a was once used as a refrigerant. If there are any businesses which sell or service air conditioners or industrial refrigeration systems in your area, call them. They may be able to furnish you with a supplier contact if they can't help you directly.
Hm, okay, thanks. I'll see what I can find!
 

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