I violate law of energy conservation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a hypothetical scenario involving a helium balloon and the concept of energy conservation. Participants explore the mechanics of a system designed to gain potential energy through the ascent and descent of the balloon, questioning the feasibility of perpetual motion and the energy dynamics involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a system where a helium balloon, once inflated, can ascend and then release potential energy as it descends, suggesting that the height can be increased indefinitely, leading to a linear increase in potential energy.
  • Another participant questions the practicality of the system, pointing out that the energy required to pump the helium back down would negate any energy gained from the balloon's motion, thus challenging the idea of perpetual motion.
  • A different participant suggests a sealed tube containing air lighter than helium to facilitate the descent of the helium, but acknowledges the challenge of the energy required for pumping the balloon.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the pursuit of breaking the law of energy conservation, suggesting that the effort may be misguided.
  • A final post references forum guidelines regarding discussions of perpetual motion, indicating that such topics may not be permitted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the feasibility of the proposed system and the implications for energy conservation, with no consensus reached on the validity of the ideas presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the energy dynamics involved in pumping and deflating the balloon, and the discussion does not resolve the mathematical or physical implications of the proposed system.

atom888
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Let's say we have a helium balloon carrying total weight of 1 kg.
We set up 2 stations. Pumping station on the ground and deflating station at certain height.
We pump the balloon until it start to float up. We catch it at deflating station at height H.
Now the energy we gain is potential energy of the falling balloon which is mGH.
The energy require for pumping and deflating a balloon is set! If any.
The height H can stretch as high as you want to! => mGH is a linear increasing function.
 
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Cool -- perpetual motion finally!

But seriously, if this is a closed cycle that runs continuously, how do you get the helium back down to the ground to keep refilling the balloon...? Pump it, right? And the energy you could get out of the balloon motion gets used up (plus more) in the helium pumping.

Oh well, still no perpetual motion.
 
Well, there's no problem in getting the helium back down. Just make a sealed tube that contain air lighter than helium and let gravity do the work. Yeah, still the sticky point is the pumping the balloon part. I suspect the energy require to pump the balloon is theoratically exact as the maximum height the balloon would reach. Oh well, I'll find another way to break that law.
 
atom888 said:
Oh well, I'll find another way to break that law.
Your time really would be better spent on another pursuit. Right now, you're playing a lottery with no jackpot!
 

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