I I would like some assistance working with commutators

  • I
  • Thread starter Thread starter hmparticle9
  • Start date Start date
hmparticle9
Messages
151
Reaction score
26
I am starting to realise that I am struggling with commutators, and I want to address this before moving on. This particular example involves the angular momentum ##\mathbf{L} = \mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{p} ##.

$$[L_x, L_y] = [y p_z - z p_y, z p_x - x p_z] = [y p_z, z p_x] - [y p_z, x p_z] - [z p_y, z p_x] + [z p_y, x p_z]$$
This is an application (twice) of ##[A+B, C] = [A,C] + [B,C]##. Good so far.

My book says the following: "from the canonical commutation relations the two middle terms drop out". If I expand the two middle terms and apply the canonical commutation relations a few times to "shift" things about. For instance:
$$[y p_z, x p_z] = y p_z x p_z - x p_z y p_z = yx p_z p_z - xy p_z p_z = 0$$
Then (only then) can I say that the middle terms drop out. But seeing that they drop out directly from the canonical commutation relations, I can't see it. So that is my first problem. I might be reading into things a bit too much, and the author might mean that I need to use the canonical commutation relations a few times for things to drop out.

My second issue is that it is stated that
$$ [y p _z, z p_x] = y p_x [p_z, z], \text {and } [z p_y, x p_z] = x p_y [z, p_z] $$

Again, repeated use of canonical commutation relations we can say
$$[z p_y, x p_z] = zp_y x p_z - x p_z z p_y = p_y x(zp_z - p_z z) = x p_y [z, p_z]$$

I just want to make sure I am following things correctly, and that I'm not missing a trick
 
Physics news on Phys.org
hmparticle9 said:
For instance:
$$[y p_z, x p_z] = y p_z x p_z - x p_z y p_z = yx p_z p_z - xy p_z p_z = 0$$
Then (only then) can I say that the middle terms drop out. But seeing that they drop out directly from the canonical commutation relations, I can't see it.
Your method is fine. To shortcut it, you can note that all factors in ##[y p_z, x p_z]## commute among themselves. Thus, ##x## commutes with ##y## and ##p_z## , ##y## commutes with ##x## and ##p_z## , and ##p_z## commutes with itself and ##x## and ##y##. So, the result of the commutator is zero.

hmparticle9 said:
Again, repeated use of canonical commutation relations we can say
$$[z p_y, x p_z] = zp_y x p_z - x p_z z p_y = p_y x(zp_z - p_z z) = x p_y [z, p_z]$$
Good.

Since ##x## commutes with ##z## , ##p_y## , and ##p_z## , ##x## can treated as a factor that can be pulled out of the commutation. Likewise ##p_y## commutes with ##x##, ##z##, and ##p_z##. So, ##p_y## can be pulled out. It doesn't matter whether you "factor out" the ##x## to the left side or the right side. Same for ##p_y##. And it doesn't matter the order in which you pull out the ##x## and ##p_y##. Thus, you can go immediately from ##[z p_y, x p_z]## to ##x p_y [z, p_z]##. Be sure to respect the order of ##z## and ##p_z##.

While getting familiar with this sort of manipulation, if you have any doubt it's a good idea to write things out as you have done.
 
  • Like
Likes hmparticle9
I am not sure if this belongs in the biology section, but it appears more of a quantum physics question. Mike Wiest, Associate Professor of Neuroscience at Wellesley College in the US. In 2024 he published the results of an experiment on anaesthesia which purported to point to a role of quantum processes in consciousness; here is a popular exposition: https://neurosciencenews.com/quantum-process-consciousness-27624/ As my expertise in neuroscience doesn't reach up to an ant's ear...
Insights auto threads is broken atm, so I'm manually creating these for new Insight articles. Towards the end of the first lecture for the Qiskit Global Summer School 2025, Foundations of Quantum Mechanics, Olivia Lanes (Global Lead, Content and Education IBM) stated... Source: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/quantum-entanglement-is-a-kinematic-fact-not-a-dynamical-effect/ by @RUTA
I am reading WHAT IS A QUANTUM FIELD THEORY?" A First Introduction for Mathematicians. The author states (2.4 Finite versus Continuous Models) that the use of continuity causes the infinities in QFT: 'Mathematicians are trained to think of physical space as R3. But our continuous model of physical space as R3 is of course an idealization, both at the scale of the very large and at the scale of the very small. This idealization has proved to be very powerful, but in the case of Quantum...

Similar threads

Back
Top