If F'(x) is bounded so is F(x)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical problem concerning the boundedness of a real function F(x) based on the properties of its first derivative F'(x). The original poster presents a statement that if F'(x) is continuous and bounded over an interval, then F(x) should also be bounded on that interval, and they also inquire about the converse of this statement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of the boundedness and continuity of F'(x) and how it relates to the boundedness of F(x). There are questions about the validity of the converse statement and whether integrating the derivative could provide insights. Some participants also raise concerns about the necessity of continuity for applying certain theorems.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring various interpretations of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the implications of boundedness and continuity, but there is no explicit consensus on the best approach or resolution of the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential ambiguities in the problem statement, particularly regarding the intervals involved. Additionally, the original poster notes their engineering background, which may influence their approach to the problem.

dpesios
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Hello everybody,
A few years ago i tried to join a mathematics department and in the relevant exams
i came up against the following problem. I apologise beforehand if the statement of the problem is a little bit ambiguous because i do not remember it exactly. However, I am sure you will get the point.

Homework Statement



if the first derivative of the real function F(x) is continuous and bounded over the interval [a,b] (or (a,b) ?) , prove that F(x) also is bounded on the interval (a,b) (or [a,b] ?) and the vice versa.

Homework Equations


So we can see that m =< F'(x) =< M.
How can we get from this into the boundness of the F(x) without falling into pitfalls ?
What about the vice versa ?
Should we use the definition or something else ?

The Attempt at a Solution


I will not attempt to publish the solution I proposed because many of you may laugh.:smile:
 
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For starters, for the "vice-versa" thing to have a fighting chance, it would have to be on a closed interval. For example, x^1/2 is bounded on (0,1] but its derivative is not.
 
Thanks for the reply,

Indeed the "vice-versa" does not hold for every function F(x) as it has also been discussed https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=515616&highlight=bounded+function+derivative".

How can we argue that F(x) is bounded ? :confused: By intuition the statement is obvious ...

Is integrating over (a,t) where t a variable among a and b the inequality m =< F'(x) <= M a good argument ? We will get rid off the derivative by doing so ... :smile:

I have an engineering background so make allowances ...
 
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That sounds like an excellent place to start
 
Hmmm, you have a function F and you know that is derivative, F' is bounded on [a,b]. But nothing says that F' is continuous, which you would need to prove to be able to use FTC. For example, FTC1 says that if f is continuous on [a,x] and if F(x) is the integral of F(x) from a to x, then F'(X) = f(x). The proof 100% relies on the continuity of f at x. FTC2 (which is the one you are wanting to use) requires the continuity of f, as well. Now of course, you could still use FTC. However, I would suggest this approach: you know that F'(x) is bounded and you know that it exists at every x in [a,b]. This implies that F is continuous, but you are dealing with a compact (closed and bounded) interval and therefore F is uniformly continuous. Now, say that F is unbounded at some point c. Let epsilon = 1 and show that no matter how close you bring x to c, |F(x) - F(c)| > 1. Now, this is pretty clear since every F(x), x not equal c, is going to be finite, but F(c) isn't finite. Now, there is some care you will have to take to ensure that F(x) is, infact finite for x not equal c.
 

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