If I tie an ant to a rock and let it fall from a high place, then....?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of tying an ant to a rock and dropping it from a height, exploring the implications of terminal velocity, impulse upon impact, and potential damage to the ant. Participants engage with concepts from classical mechanics, biology, and the effects of sound waves, while considering both theoretical and practical aspects of the scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the difference between the two terminal velocities and how that affects the impulse on the ant upon impact with the ground.
  • Others suggest that the increased mass from attaching the ant to the rock could lead to greater harm, but the extent of this effect is debated.
  • One participant proposes that sound waves generated by the impact could potentially damage the ant, introducing a model involving a hemispherical rock and the propagation of wave fronts.
  • Another participant compares the energy of different forms of impact, such as a sack of sand versus a bullet, and discusses mechanisms of blast injury, referencing historical studies on the topic.
  • Some participants express a lack of familiarity with certain mechanical terms, indicating a varied level of understanding among contributors.
  • The concept of terminal velocity is discussed in the context of determining the speed necessary to cause harm to the ant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the effects of the rock's mass or the role of sound waves in damaging the ant. Multiple competing views and hypotheses are presented, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the ant's resilience, the definitions of terminal velocity, and the specific conditions of the impact scenario, which remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in classical mechanics, biology, and the effects of forces on small organisms may find this discussion relevant.

Boltzman Oscillation
Messages
233
Reaction score
26
Summary explains it.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What's the difference between the two terminal velocities? How does that affect the impulse on the ant upon impact with the ground?
 
Boltzmann Oscillation said:
Summary:: We all know that ants can survive falls from giant heights due to F = ma or F = ma = change of momentum. If I attach the ant to a rock then the mass would increase. Would the ant be hurt more then or am I missing anything?

Summary explains it.
In addition to @berkeman's suggestions consider this. According to Entomology Today, an ant can lift up to 5,000 times its own body weight. You can do a back-of-the-envelope calculation with some reasonable numerical assumptions and figure out what size impulse is involved. I am guessing that to hurt the ant you will need to apply at least 2-3 times the maximum weight that the ant can lift.

If you try this at home, be sure not to attach the ant to the underside of the rock. :oldbiggrin:
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: davenn and berkeman
kuruman said:
If you try this at home, be sure not to attach the ant to the underside of the rock.

That's where the coyotes go.

Back on topic, you need to also consider the force on the "rope".
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: davenn
Could it be possible that the sound waves generated in the impact of the rock with the ground could somehow damage the ant?
 
hilbert2 said:
Could it be possible that the sound waves generated in the impact of the rock with the ground could somehow damage the ant?
If you have a hemispherical rock (round side down) with a tiny centered hemispherical divot on the top within which the poor innocent ant lies strapped to his seat of doom and a hemispherical hole in the ground into which the rock can nest snugly then, on impact with the ground a wave front will be established at the outside of the rock. That wave front will propagate inward and may sting the ant's backside, yes.

As ant-killing technologies go, this does not compare favorably with a can of Raid.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: davenn
jbriggs444 said:
As ant-killing technologies go, this does not compare favorably with a can of Raid.

Yeah, my idea was just about the same amount of energy doing more damage in one form than another, compare getting a sack of sand thrown at you and a bullet with same kinetic energy. People who have been near accidental explosions sometimes have internal damage caused by pressure waves.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK202251/

Previous attempts to define the mechanisms of blast injury suggested the involvement of spalling, implosion, and inertial effects as major physical components of the blast-body interaction and later tissue damage (Benzinger, 1950). Spallation is the disruption that occurs at the boundary between two media of different densities; it occurs when a compression wave in the denser medium is reflected at the interface. Implosion occurs when the shock wave compresses a gas bubble in a liquid medium, raising the pressure in the bubble much higher than the shock pressure; as the pressure wave passes, the bubbles can re-expand explosively and damage surrounding tissue (Benzinger, 1950; Chiffelle, 1966; Phillips, 1986). Inertial effects occur at the interface of the different densities: the lighter object will be accelerated more than the heavier one, so there will be a large stress at the boundary. Recent results suggest that there is a frequency dependence of the blast effects: high-frequency (0.5–1.5 kHz) low-amplitude stress waves target mostly organs that contain abrupt density changes from one medium to another (for example, the air–blood interface in the lungs or the blood–parenchyma interface in the brain), and low-frequency (<0.5 kHz) high-amplitude shear waves disrupt tissue by generating local motions that overcome natural tissue elasticity (for example, at the contact of gray and white brain matter).
 
berkeman said:
What's the difference between the two terminal velocities? How does that affect the impulse on the ant upon impact with the ground?

I never learned some of these terms, I became fascinated with quantum mechanics and pretty much neglected most classical mechanics. Right now I am learning more and more probability which will only help qm. I think the most advanced mechanics I learned was the lagrangian but i don't know it well.
 
Boltzmann Oscillation said:
I never learned some of these terms, I became fascinated with quantum mechanics and pretty much neglected most classical mechanics. Right now I am learning more and more probability which will only help qm. I think the most advanced mechanics I learned was the lagrangian but i don't know it well.

The "terminal velocity" is the speed the rock must attain to kill the ant!
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: kuruman
  • #10
PeroK said:
The "terminal velocity" is the speed the rock must attain to kill the ant!
im not THAT behind in my mechanics.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
11K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
12K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K