If the product of n numbers is 1, their sum is >= n

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on proving the inequality that for real positive numbers \(x_1, x_2, \ldots, x_n\), if their product is 1, then their sum is greater than or equal to \(n\). The conversation explores methods of proof, including induction and the AM-GM inequality, and touches on generalizations to infinite-dimensional spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant mentions proving the case for \(n=2\) and expresses difficulty in using induction for larger \(n\).
  • Another participant suggests using the AM-GM inequality to establish the inequality for \(n\) numbers.
  • A participant clarifies that the AM-GM inequality is a later problem and seeks an inductive proof specifically for the case of \(a + 1/a \geq 2\).
  • Discussion arises about generalizing the AM-GM inequality to infinite-dimensional spaces, questioning what the analogue of the geometric mean would be.
  • Another participant proposes a potential generalization involving the exponential of the integral of the logarithm of a function, under the condition that the function is positive.
  • There is a reference to Jensen's inequality as a method to prove both inequalities, citing a source for further reading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to prove the inequality, with some advocating for the AM-GM method while others focus on induction. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the inductive proof and the generalization to infinite dimensions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for positive values in the context of generalizing the AM-GM inequality, and there are references to specific mathematical techniques without resolving the underlying assumptions or steps involved in the proofs.

matticus
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i'm reading shilov's "real and complex analysis". there is a problem to prove that for real positive x1,x2,...xn, if x1*x2*...*xn=1, then x1+x2+...xn >= n. I proved this for the case n = 2. it says use induction on this case to prove it for the nth case. but i just don't see it.

for n=2:

(a+1)^2 >= 0
a^2 + 2a + 1 >= 0
a^2 + 1 >= 2a
a + 1/a >= 2
 
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matticus said:
i'm reading shilov's "real and complex analysis". there is a problem to prove that for real positive x1,x2,...xn, if x1*x2*...*xn=1, then x1+x2+...xn >= n. I proved this for the case n = 2. it says use induction on this case to prove it for the nth case. but i just don't see it.

Use the AM-GM inequality.

\frac{x_1+x_2+...+x_n}{n} \geq \sqrt[n]{x_1x_2...x_n} = 1

So,
x_1+...+x_n \geq n
 
right. actually it's a later problem to prove that inequality. but that's not really what I'm looking for. he asks as one problem to prove that a + 1/a >= 2. then he says use induction to prove it for the general case. so what i really want is an inductive proof.
 
Kummer said:
Use the AM-GM inequality.

\frac{x_1+x_2+...+x_n}{n} \geq \sqrt[n]{x_1x_2...x_n} = 1

So,
x_1+...+x_n \geq n

hey, this AM-GM equality gives me a problem, let's suppose we would like to generalize it to an infinite dimensional space, the AM is:

\int_{a}^{b}dx (b-a)^{-1} f(x)

however what would be the analogue of the GM ?
 
Klaus_Hoffmann said:
however what would be the analogue of the GM ?
We need the restriction
f(x) >0

Then, perhaps this is a reasonable generalization,
\exp \left(\int_a^b \ln f(x) dx\right)
 
Kummer said:
We need the restriction
f(x) >0

Then, perhaps this is a reasonable generalization,
\exp \left(\int_a^b \ln f(x) dx\right)

That's exactly right, and both inequalities can be proven essentially the same way using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen%27s_inequality" , as shown in chapter 3 of Rudin's analysis book.
 
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