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Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona

  1. Dec 22, 2007 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrants.leave.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

    Regarding the popular claims that we can't deport 20 million people: If the laws are enforced as they are now in Arizona, then the illegals will deport themselves. I heard that the same thing is happening in Oklahoma.

    Bush's argument that we can't enforce immigration laws is just another strawman - another sell-out for big business over the interests of legal U.S. citizens.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2007
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 22, 2007 #2

    Evo

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    That's what we need, enforcement of laws, not a stupid multi-billion dollar fence.
     
  4. Dec 22, 2007 #3

    Gokul43201

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    But how will they get across the fence?!
     
  5. Dec 22, 2007 #4

    Evo

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    Rut Roh!!
     
  6. Dec 22, 2007 #5
    Leaving a bad economy is what these workers do best. They travel, find work, send money home and then leave only to return next seaosn. It's a vicous cycle.
     
  7. Dec 23, 2007 #6
    This quote confuses me. Do you mean that banning illegal immigrants will be a hit to economic growth, which is the right statement, or that illegal immigrants are evil and destroy the American economy, which is the wrong statement.
     
  8. Dec 23, 2007 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    Tell that to the tradesman who used to make 60K but who now makes 30K because businesses exploit cheap and illegal laborers who get no benefits.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  9. Dec 23, 2007 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    Heh, eleven-foot ladders?

    At least their trip home will be much safer than the trip here.
     
  10. Dec 23, 2007 #9

    Evo

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    What, have you already forgotten this horrific scenario of the US trying to stop illegal aliens from returning to Mexico? :surprised (I will not say which member originally posted this article if they will send me a pound of dark chocolate covered almonds).

    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/47978
     
  11. Dec 23, 2007 #10
    A lack of migrant workers is a blow to small businesses short the migrant worker. Migrants seek jobs away from large waning markets, and head towards growing markets

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/5398754.html

    Building a wall would not do much. Migrant workers enter the country under a piece of legislation granting them a visa. Cutting the number of visas will cut the number of migrant workers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  12. Dec 23, 2007 #11
    So what's the cure? Burn down the economy to drive them away? The main problem stems from illegal immigrants who have little intention of making a life for themselves in the US and assimilating into the culture. They may be migrants or ,hell, they may be terrorists. Either way, the US doesn't need'em. In principle, a Z Visa program could help funnel the desirables onto an irreversible path towards permanent residency and citizenship, and the legislation presently under consideration proposes policy and fiscal if not legal steps to secure this goal. Namely, you have to buy your way into the system to the tune of $1000 + $500 per dependent to start and $1500 every 4 years after that plus processing fees and you have to meet to English and civics education requirements and pass background and employment checks to maintain it.

    Let's face it. There isn't enough federal manpower to identify and deport millions of illegals already here. Any plan to secure the country against the worst elements of illegal immigration will require bringing the tolerable ones to the surface--thereby spilling more light into their communities. What is needed is employer, municipality and state participation in federal systems identifying illegals. Only then can we hope to turn the tide back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  13. Dec 23, 2007 #12
    I go to a Spanish speaking church in Arizona. No one talks about who is legal or not but I assume that at least some of the members are illegal. None of them are leaving. None. I think this is wishfull thinking. By the way, all the Mexicans I know (and it is a lot) assimilate quite quickly. We teach Sunday School for kids in English because that is the common language that they all speak (as it should be).
     
  14. Dec 23, 2007 #13

    Ivan Seeking

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    Frankly, I think you are both speaking against the facts.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-26-moving_N.htm

    Enforce the laws and the illegals will leave. And no one is saying that we can't have a viable migrant worker policy, but the federal government is in default in the primary task of protecting the borders. Unfortunately, this has victimized the illegal immigrants as well as undermining national sovereignty and decimating the legal skilled labor force.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  15. Dec 23, 2007 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    Oh yes, as for the oyster shuckers, I guess oyster lovers will just have to pay enough for the product to justify a labor force that makes a fair wage.
     
  16. Dec 23, 2007 #15

    Evo

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    The tide of illegal immigrants must be stopped, we simply cannot assimilate them all. I think that is self evident. This is a separate issue from legal migrant workers.

    People continue to hire and abus illegal workers because no one enforces the laws. If the company owner ends up behind bars or is leveled stiff fines, you will see the jobs dry up, which means no reason to come here if they know they can't make money.

    Yes, it's a situation that is waaay out of control. But it's not hard to find out who is hiring these people.

    The last time I was in Dallas, TX, we drove down a popular expressway where illegals gather on corners waiting to be picked up for work. Pickup trucks drive by slowly advertising jobs (mostly construction) and the people climb in.

    When everyone on our block had to have their roofs replaced due to baseball size hail a few years ago, all of the roofing companies had illegal aliens that spoke no english. All day, the Mexican radio station would be blaring, god forbid you had to ask any of them anything, you had to find the team "leader" the one that could translate.
     
  17. Dec 23, 2007 #16

    Evo

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    I prefer buying them in the shell and shucking my own, not that hard, then you have the shells for oysters rockefeller. Down in Galveston, it is quite common to buy them in the shell, although I know Hillman's sells them shucked. They're cheaper in the shells and usually much fresher. Oyster roasts, they must be in the shell. All of my favorite recipes require shells.

    Let's just have some stupid celebrity endorse oysters in the shell and make them shell chic.
     
  18. Dec 23, 2007 #17
    Regarding illegals: I would like to see a wall, not a fence. Something liken to the Wall of China.
     
  19. Dec 23, 2007 #18

    Evo

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    We've got a wall being built, for all the good it's doing. Oops, people can tunnel under walls!!!
     
  20. Dec 23, 2007 #19

    Ivan Seeking

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    And if we don't have two-million people crossing the border illegally each year in pursuit of what amounts to government sanctioned, illegal jobs, then controlling the border becomes far less difficult.
     
  21. Dec 23, 2007 #20
    I'm sure it's a bit more difficult to dig under wall like the Wall of China, especially if it's built over sand. Easier to monitor or spot a digging crew too! Cmon, Evo, it would be better than a fence and either would be better than nothing at all!
     
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