News Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona

[Pelt]

The tide of illegal immigrants must be stopped, we simply cannot assimilate them all. I think that is self evident. This is a separate issue from legal migrant workers.

We could assimilate the bulk worthy enough to become Americans if we wanted to. Estimates place the illegal population at somewhere between 8 and 11 million--this is roughly two to three grades worth of the US public school student population. How hard or expensive is it to teach civics and English, especially if you can force the illegals pay for it out of their own pocket? Either they'll come forward and be assimilated or they'll remain in the shadows--either way we're at back to square one or better.

People continue to hire and abus illegal workers because no one enforces the laws. If the company owner ends up behind bars or is leveled stiff fines, you will see the jobs dry up, which means no reason to come here if they know they can't make money.

Yeah, but why deprive yourself of the labor if you don't have to? If it's the character of the illegal that's at question, wouldn't it be more efficient to regularize the desirable ones while focusing efforts on deporting the troublemakers? Where I come from, it's the real menace isn't the day laborer but the trafficker, gangbanger, and vagrant. If you want to penalize the employers, then have them subsidize the cost of Z Visas.

When everyone on our block had to have their roofs replaced due to baseball size hail a few years ago, all of the roofing companies had illegal aliens that spoke no english. All day, the Mexican radio station would be blaring, god forbid you had to ask any of them anything, you had to find the team "leader" the one that could translate.

Can't help you with Spanish-language radio, but English education paid for by the immigrant and employer should go a long way towards mitigating the language barrier problem.

 

[wildman]

Tucson is rapidly approaching a 50% hispanic popultion. It wouldn't be so bad if they would bother to learn to speak English. It would help a lot if the federal government would gives us a few bucks to teach their children to speak English. Federal law requires bi lingual education.

They hold family reunions in the asiles at Walmart while their kids run wild. They don't want to assimilate into our society they want to make their own society within this country. The get plenty of encouragement and support from La Raza.

Even the self check out lanes at most stores have a choice of Espanol or English.

Tucson has been Hispanic from day one. It is an old Spanish Pueblo (hence its nick name: The Old Pueblo). I would say if you move to Tucson then you should be willing to do some assimilation yourself.

 

[mheslep]

Tucson has been Hispanic from day one.

No, not continuously. In 1990 the population was ~32% hispanic, http://factfinder.census.gov/servle...name=null&reg=null:null&_keyword=&_industry=". Thats acceleration.

 

[edward]

Tucson has been Hispanic from day one. It is an old Spanish Pueblo (hence its nick name: The Old Pueblo). I would say if you move to Tucson then you should be willing to do some assimilation yourself.

No the population was originally native American not hispanic. The term Pueblo, which is spanish, refers to an Indian dwelling built in a distinct manner. It is also of course assotiated with the Pueblo indians. Gradually it was applied to villages in general. There was never a true pueblo in Tucson. The nick name has nothing to do with hispanics.

As for assimilating I have lived here off and on been since 1962. The recent rise in Hispanic population is from illegal immigrants.

Even the stats aren't correct as the adult illegals can't really be counted. The increase in the stats only show the anchor babies because they are born in local hospitals creating a public record.

 

[wildman]

No the population was originally native American not hispanic. The term Pueblo, which is spanish, refers to an Indian dwelling built in a distinct manner. It is also of course assotiated with the Pueblo indians. Gradually it was applied to villages in general. There was never a true pueblo in Tucson. The nick name has nothing to do with hispanics.

As for assimilating I have lived here off and on been since 1962. The recent rise in Hispanic population is from illegal immigrants.

Even the stats aren't correct as the adult illegals can't really be counted. The increase in the stats only show the anchor babies because they are born in local hospitals creating a public record.

The pubelo indians are in northern Arizona, not in the south. Tucson was settled by the Spanish that is why there is a Spanish Mission (San Xavier) just south of town. How did San Xavier get there if the Spanish didn't settle the area? Magic maybe? Tucson was largely Hispanic until after World War II when anglos flooded in from the North. If you don't like Hispanics stay away from the Mexican Border.

 

[mheslep]

Tucson was largely Hispanic until after World War II when anglos flooded in from the North. If you don't like Hispanics stay away from the Mexican Border.

Source?

 

[wildman]

Wickipedia:

Jesuit missionary Eusebio Francisco Kino visited the Santa Cruz River valley in 1692, and founded the Mission San Xavier del Bac about 7 miles (12 km) upstream from the site of the settlement of Tucson in 1700. The Spanish established a presidio (fort) on August 20, 1775 and the town came to be called "Tucson." Tucson became a part of Mexico after Mexico gained independence from Spain in 1821. Following the Gadsden purchase in 1853, Tucson became a part of the United States of America, although the American military did not formally take over control of the community until March 1856.

Also see:

http://parentseyes.arizona.edu/mexamer-history.html

The above is from the UA.

maybe the anglo invasion was earlier than WWII but there has always been a significant Hispanic population in Tucson.

 

[edward]

The pubelo indians are in northern Arizona, not in the south. Tucson was settled by the Spanish that is why there is a Spanish Mission (San Xavier) just south of town. How did San Xavier get there if the Spanish didn't settle the area? Magic maybe? Tucson was largely Hispanic until after World War II when anglos flooded in from the North. If you don't like Hispanics stay away from the Mexican Border.

Pueblo Indians also lived in New Mexico. Pueblo is a derived from the Spanish word pueblerino which means a small town just as does provinciano.

Hey dude I have been here since 62 and I know all about Father Francisco Kino laying the foundation for the San Xavier del bac mission in 1700. It wasn't a pueblo, which is exactly what I stated. Father kino enlisted the help of the local native Americans to build the Mission.

There are a number of Missions in Az that were built about the same time. This was of a religious nature and meant to convert the native Americans to Catholicism, not to settle the area.

One small area north of the Mission that that is referred to as a Pueblo was occupied by by the Piman Indains. For the most part the Hispanics who came to the area at that time were ranchers. Some of the families are still in the ranching business.

Most of the anglos who came to the area were also ranchers.

The first true enclosed settlement was the Presidio which is at the site of what is now downtown Tucson. The reason the indian villages, the Spanish Missionaries and the caucasions ended up in the same area was because of water. The now dry Santa Cruz river ran year round at that time.

Tucson was no more than a wide spot on a dusty road until the railroad came through in the late 1800s. Tucson's early culture was a blend and there was assimilation on both sides.

Would you care to expand on how this is related to the flood of illegal entrants who have crossed the border in the past 7 years without giving me the: "They were here first bunk." Half of the people coming recently are from Central America.

 

[DrClapeyron]

The hijackers on 9/11 were illegal immigrants. This is a serious issue. We need to dig moats, build a wall from Texas to California, burry our heads in the sand and elect Ron Paul for president.

 

[edward]

Wickipedia:maybe the anglo invasion was earlier than WWII but there has always been a significant Hispanic population in Tucson.

No one claimed that there was not a significant Hispanic population. It had been steady at about 30% for the last 70 years. The claim was that it has increased disproportionately during the last 7 or 8 years due to an influx of illegal aliens.

The situation is now at a crisis point. And in all fairness I believe that local police should not be involved in the immigration problem, but they are. They are now expected to call the the Border patrol if their is a suspicion that a person is here illegally.

In one incident an Hispanic high school student was caught with drugs at the school. When police arrived he admitted that he was not here legally. Police called the Border Patrol and the entire six member family was deported.

Another incident just last week involved a traffic stop where a couple could not speak English, had no insurance on their vehicle, and no drivers license. The policeman called the Border Patrol, the couple was found to have been living here illegally for seven years.

The man and two children were deported immediately. His wife who was pregnant went into labor at the scene and was taken to a hospital where the baby was born. She was then given 20 days to voluntarily leave the country.

That is really a bummer, but if they had bothered to learn to speak English the Border Patrol would not have been called. They would have been cited for the two violations and released.

I am definitely not in favor of tearing families apart in this manner.

 

[wildman]

Would you care to expand on how this is related to the flood of illegal entrants who have crossed the border in the past 7 years without giving me the: "They were here first bunk." Half of the people coming recently are from Central America.

So what happened 7 years ago to cause the flood? Hmmm, let's see, Bush got elected and quit enforcing the laws? Did you vote for Bush? Then you got what you voted for. If you voted Democrat then I apologize since I voted for Bush in 2000 (stupid me). It seems so ironic to me that it is the Republicans who are screaming about the illegals when there wasn't even that much of a problem before Bush opened the flood gates.Some additional facts from a local historian that I called (Mr. Santa Cruz who teaches history at Tucson High School if you want to check):

Tucson became majority anglo in 1913.
Tucson High was still 1/2 Hispanic just before WWII. So what I said about the anglo invasion after WWII wasn't that far off the mark even if not quite completely accurate.

 

[edward]

So what happened 7 years ago to cause the flood? Hmmm, let's see, Bush got elected and quit enforcing the laws? Did you vote for Bush? Then you got what you voted for. If you voted Democrat then I apologize since I voted for Bush in 2000 (stupid me). It seems so ironic to me that it is the Republicans who are screaming about the illegals when there wasn't even that much of a problem before Bush opened the flood gates.

No I didn't vote for Bush and for some reason even though we feared another terrorist attack he totally ignored the border. At about the same time American owned factories were closing in Mexico and the jobs started going to China. This all coincided with the construction boom in the USA.

We are overwhelmed in many ways. The federal government requires that the state teach English to children who would not be here in the first place if the federal government had done it's job.

Hospitals have closed due to the cost of giving mandatory emergency care to illegals. The illegals quickly caught on to the fact that if they needed medical care they could just show up at an emergency room.

The teenage members of the families are forming their own gangs.

Some additional facts from a local historian that I called (Mr. Santa Cruz who teaches history at Tucson High School if you want to check):

Tucson became majority anglo in 1913.
Tucson High was still 1/2 Hispanic just before WWII. So what I said about the anglo invasion after WWII wasn't that far off the mark even if not quite completely accurate.

Thats is interesting, my wife attended Tucson High in the early sixties it was at about the 30% hispanic level then.. The military bases brought a lot of Anglos here during WWII which probably tipped the scales. Cooling systems for homes became available in the same time frame , just before WWII, you are talking about. That was a big draw for anglos.

 

[wildman]

We are overwhelmed in many ways. The federal government requires that the state teach English to children who would not be here in the first place if the federal government had done it's job.

I never figured that one out. I teach Sunday School at a Spanish speaking church and all the kids speak perfect English. The best way to learn a language is immersion...

Oh well it is like Federal Flood insurance. If it didn't exist we wouldn't need it since no one would build in a flood plain if they couldn't get insurance. Isn't our government grand?

 

[edward]

I never figured that one out. I teach Sunday School at a Spanish speaking church and all the kids speak perfect English. The best way to learn a language is immersion

You are right about the kids learning to speak English if exposed to it. A two year old can learn to speak 2 languages simultaneously almost as easily as learning to speak one.

The problem is by the time they reach grade school they have lost much of that ability. This along with the fact that most illegals only speak Spanish in the home and can not afford to send their children to pre school factors in as much of the cause of the language situation.

 

[edward]

The situation here is getting even more bizarre. The local Sheriff has asked permission from the County Board of supervisors to allow him to deputize Boarder Patrol agents so they may help with law enforcements problems.

The border among other things is a high crime area. The laws broken consist of theft, crimes committed by illegals against other illegals, drug trafficking and gang violence.

One of the most most disgusting things visually seen is the "Rape Tree", a tree that is decorated with the undergarments of illegal women who have been raped by the smugglers who have brought them across the border.

http://chromatism.net/current/images/rapetree.jpg

A number of Sheriff's duputies have already been cross traiined so that they may assist with Border patrol activities.

 

[wildman]

The situation here is getting even more bizarre. The local Sheriff has asked permission from the County Board of supervisors to allow him to deputize Boarder Patrol agents so they may help with law enforcements problems.

The border among other things is a high crime area. The laws broken consist of theft, crimes committed by illegals against other illegals, drug trafficking and gang violence.

One of the most most disgusting things visually seen is the "Rape Tree", a tree that is decorated with the undergarments of illegal women who have been raped by the smugglers who have brought them across the border.

http://chromatism.net/current/images/rapetree.jpg

A number of Sheriff's duputies have already been cross traiined so that they may assist with Border patrol activities.

The situation is very bad. Something should be done. I don't know what, but something.