Impulse: Jumping before the elevator crashes

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving impulse and average force during a collision in a free-falling elevator scenario. The original poster presents a situation where a passenger in an elevator experiences a collision after a free fall from a height of 36 meters, and they seek to calculate the impulse and average force experienced by the passenger, both with and without a jump just before impact.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply the impulse-momentum theorem and kinematic equations to find the impulse and average force. They express confusion regarding the initial velocity of the passenger when jumping upward relative to the cab. Other participants question the calculation of the passenger's speed just before impact, considering the direction of motion.

Discussion Status

Some participants affirm the calculations for the initial part of the problem, while others are exploring the implications of the passenger's jump on their speed at impact. There is ongoing clarification regarding the relationship between the speeds of the cab and the passenger.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes considerations about the passenger's speed relative to the cab and the ground, highlighting potential misunderstandings about relative motion in the context of the problem.

js732192
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Hello!

Homework Statement


After the cable snaps and the safety system fails, an elevator cab free falls from a height of 36m. During the collision at the bottom of the elevator shaft, a 90 kg passenger is stopped in 0.005 s. Assume that neither the passenger nor the cab rebounds. What are the magnitudes of the:

a) impulse and b) average force on the passenger during the collision?

If the passenger were to jump upward with a speed of 7.0 m/s relative to the cab floor just before the cab his the bottom of the shaft, what are the magnitudes of the:

c) impulse and d) average force (assuming the same stopping time)?

Homework Equations



J = F⃗Δt= Δp⃗ = m(v⃗f−v⃗i)
v2=v20+2aΔy


The Attempt at a Solution



a) I used this formula v2=v20+2aΔy with y=-36m and v2=0 to solve for v1. I got that v1=26.56 m/s

I then used J = Δp⃗ = m(v⃗f−v⃗i) using vf= 0 and v1=26.56 to get that J=-2390.7 kgm/s

b) I used J = F⃗Δt with J=-2390.7 and t=0.005s to get that F= -478136.38 N (480000 N)

c) I used J = Δp⃗ = m(v⃗f−v⃗i) again, but I was confused as to whether or not vi= 7 m/s (or if it was more complex than that). But I used vi=7 m/s to get that J = -630 kgm/s

d) J = F⃗Δt with the new J to find that F=126000 N

Am I on the right track? The numbers just seem so high...But I guess the dude's falling from quite a height.

Thanks!
 
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js732192 said:
...

c) I used J = Δp⃗ = m(v⃗f−v⃗i) again, but I was confused as to whether or not vi= 7 m/s (or if it was more complex than that). But I used vi=7 m/s to get that J = -630 kgm/s

d) J = F⃗Δt with the new J to find that F=126000 N

Am I on the right track? The numbers just seem so high...But I guess the dude's falling from quite a height.

Thanks!
Hi js732192. Welcome to PF !

a & b look good.

For c & d:

The passenger jumps upward at a speed of 7m/s, relative to the cab floor, just before the cab hits the bottom ...

If the cab's speed is 26.56 m/s (downward) just before it hits the bottom, what is the passengers speed just before impact?
 
SammyS said:
Hi js732192. Welcome to PF !

a & b look good.

For c & d:

The passenger jumps upward at a speed of 7m/s, relative to the cab floor, just before the cab hits the bottom ...

If the cab's speed is 26.56 m/s (downward) just before it hits the bottom, what is the passengers speed just before impact?

Would the passenger's speed be 7 + 26.56 = 33.56 m/s?
 
js732192 said:
Would the passenger's speed be 7 + 26.56 = 33.56 m/s?

No. By jumping upwards, he's trying to move away from the ground, so it doesn't make sense that he's approaching the ground faster.
 

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