Increase in spin rate as object collases to black hole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of spin as an object collapses into a black hole, specifically whether the increase in spin continues until the object becomes a black hole and the implications of such behavior on the structure of the black hole. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects of black hole physics, including the nature of singularities and angular momentum conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the increase in spin of an object collapsing into a black hole does not continue indefinitely and may stop at the moment it becomes a black hole.
  • Others argue that if the spin were to continue increasing for a time before stopping, it could suggest the existence of a "hard radius" below the event horizon, although this idea has not been definitively excluded.
  • One participant notes that while the frequency of spin cannot be observed, angular momentum can be observed through frame-dragging effects, which remain constant without external interactions.
  • Another participant highlights the difference between the singularities in Kerr and Schwarzschild black holes, indicating that the Kerr singularity is a ring singularity and does not collapse to zero radius.
  • A later reply discusses the implications of the Kerr limit, stating that if a rotating body exceeds this limit, it will not collapse into a black hole, and emphasizes that angular momentum is a conserved quantity that can change if the black hole is not isolated.
  • One participant references a seminal paper discussing the internal structure of black holes, introducing the concept of mass inflation and suggesting that there may be a form of "hard radius" where infalling matter could collide before further collapse.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the behavior of spin during the collapse to a black hole, and the discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the implications of spin behavior or the existence of a hard radius.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes limitations related to the understanding of the interiors of spinning black holes, the dependence on specific definitions of singularities, and unresolved mathematical aspects concerning the transition from a collapsing object to a black hole.

hexexpert
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It has been said that physics still occur inside a black hole, excluding the singularity. It's just that we can't observe the physics. The spin of black hole is measurable. What I want to know is; does the INCREASE in spin as the object gets ever smaller stop increasing at the moment in becomes a black hole? Certainly the spin doesn't increase to infinity. If the observed spin did continue to increase for a bit before coming to a stop would this would imply a hard radius below the event horizon? Has this been specifically excluded? If anyone has a link to the subject of spin as an object transitions to becoming a black hole I'd appreciated it.
 
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hexexpert said:
It has been said that physics still occur inside a black hole, excluding the singularity. It's just that we can't observe the physics. The spin of black hole is measurable. What I want to know is; does the INCREASE in spin as the object gets ever smaller stop increasing at the moment in becomes a black hole? Certainly the spin doesn't increase to infinity. If the observed spin did continue to increase for a bit before coming to a stop would this would imply a hard radius below the event horizon? Has this been specifically excluded? If anyone has a link to the subject of spin as an object transitions to becoming a black hole I'd appreciated it.

You can't observe the frequency of the spin. You can observe the angular momentum (by its frame-dragging effect), but that is constant in the absence of external interactions.
 
Also, the singularity in a
Kerr black hole is not the same as the singularity in a Schwarzschild black hole. It is called a ring singularity because it does not collapse down to zero radius.
 
You might find this link of interest-

http://people.sissa.it/~rezzolla/Whisky/WhiskyI/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hexexpert said:
What I want to know is; does the INCREASE in spin as the object gets ever smaller stop increasing at the moment in becomes a black hole? Certainly the spin doesn't increase to infinity. If the observed spin did continue to increase for a bit before coming to a stop would this would imply a hard radius below the event horizon? Has this been specifically excluded? If anyone has a link to the subject of spin as an object transitions to becoming a black hole I'd appreciated it.

If the body undergoing collapse is rotating too fast in the first place (eg above the Kerr limit), then it will not collapse into a black hole. If it collapses, the only externally observable property describing its rotation is the angular momentum, which is a conserved quantity (it can increase or decrease if the black hole is not isolated).

Interiors of realistic spinning black holes remain a hard and vastly unexplored topic. A seminal paper by Poisson and Israel [1] presented the theory of mass inflation: the unstable inward and outward pressure and energy flows near the inner lightlike horizon should enter a runaway amplification due to their own gravitational effect – this could be indeed a form of "hard radius" where most infalling matter could smash into before a further collapse.

[1] E. Poisson, W. Israel, "Internal structure of black holes", Phys. Rev. D 41, 1796–809 (1990).
 
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