Independence of path of line integral

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the independence of the path of a line integral in the context of vector fields, specifically examining the continuity of functions involved in the integral and the implications for calculating the integral along different paths.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the continuity of functions related to the line integral, questioning the implications of discontinuities at specific points, particularly at x=0. There is also discussion about the correctness of chosen paths for integration and the validity of calculations leading to different results.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered guidance on the continuity of functions and the implications for path independence. There is an ongoing exploration of the calculations and interpretations of results, with no explicit consensus reached on the correct answer or method.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the functions are not continuous at x=0 due to the denominator in the expressions, which raises questions about the paths chosen for integration. There is mention of potential errors in notes regarding expected results, indicating uncertainty in the problem setup.

DryRun
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Homework Statement
http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20120117/ReWSCD1f.jpg

The attempt at a solution
[tex]\frac{\partial P}{\partial y}=\frac{2y}{x^3}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial Q}{\partial x}=\frac{2y}{x^3}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial Q}{\partial x}=\frac{\partial P}{\partial y}[/tex]

According to my notes: Both functions are continuous, except at x=0.
My tentative explanation: This is due to the denominator in [itex]\frac{2y}{x^3}[/itex] which will make the fraction equal to infinity at x=0. Therefore the functions won't be continuous at x=0. Is this explanation correct?

Apparently, at this stage, i am free to choose whatever path i please. I'm going to start from path y=1 (1,1) to (2,1) and then move up the path x=2 (2,1) to (2,2).

Then, i do direct substitution:
[tex]I=\int^2_1\frac{11}{x^3}\,dx+\int^2_1 -\frac{5}{4}\,ydy[/tex]
Is this correct?
After i did the integration, i get the final answer: [itex]-\frac{87}{8}[/itex] but it's wrong.
 
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I think if your line integral is path independent, you can use the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus as your vector field is just a gradient field of a scalar function.
 
I don't understand what you're talking about.
 
The correct answer is: -9/8

For the path i chose in the first post, the graph is like this:
http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20120117/K2c405Y4.jpg

I think you're wrong about the path going "under" the origin, as the line x=0 is the y-axis. So the graph is not allowed to cross the y-axis but can go under the x-axis. Correct?
 
If the answer is 9/4, then what is wrong with my calculation from post #1?
Is this expression correct?
[tex]I=\int^2_1\frac{11}{x^3}\,dx+\int^2_1 -\frac{5}{4}\,ydy[/tex]And no one answered this:
sharks said:
According to my notes: Both functions are continuous, except at x=0.
My tentative explanation: This is due to the denominator in [itex]\frac{2y}{x^3}[/itex] which will make the fraction equal to infinity at x=0. Therefore the functions won't be continuous at x=0. Is this explanation correct?
 
Can anyone help?
 
sharks said:
If the answer is 9/4, then what is wrong with my calculation from post #1?
Is this expression correct?
[tex]I=\int^2_1\frac{11}{x^3}\,dx+\int^2_1 -\frac{5}{4}\,ydy[/tex]

It is correct, and the result is 9/4. How did you get different result? Show details.

ehild
 
Hi ehild!:smile:
[tex]\int^2_1\frac{11}{x^3}\,dx=\int^2_111x^{-3}\,dx=-\frac{11}{2x^2}=\frac{33}{8}[/tex]
[tex]\int^2_1 -\frac{5}{4}\,ydy=-\frac{5y^2}{8}=-\frac{15}{8}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{33}{8}-\frac{15}{8}=\frac{9}{4}[/tex]
Indeed, the answer is [itex]\frac{9}{4}[/itex]. However, in my notes, the answer is [itex]-\frac{9}{8}[/itex] for this problem. It must be a mistake in my notes.
 
Last edited:
Your notes are wrong then. It happens... :smile:

And the functions are not continuous at x=0, because of the x in the denominator.

ehild
 
  • #10
ehild said:
And the functions are not continuous at x=0, because of the x in the denominator.

To confirm my suspicions on this:

For example, if [tex]\frac{\partial P}{\partial y}=\frac{\partial Q}{\partial x}=\frac{2x}{y^2}[/tex]
Then, the functions are not continuous at y=0.

And if [tex]\frac{\partial P}{\partial y}=\frac{\partial Q}{\partial x}=\frac{2x}{x+y^2}[/tex]
Then, the functions are not continuous at (0,0).

Are my conclusions correct?
 
  • #11
I do not get you. What functions are you talking about? Of course, the functions P and Q are not continuous where the denominator is zero (x=0). So you need to use such path for integration which does not include x=0.

ehild
 
  • #12
In my post #12 above, i just gave 2 random examples, as i wanted to understand that it's really the denominator from [itex]\frac{\partial P}{\partial y}[/itex] and [itex]\frac{\partial Q}{\partial x}[/itex] which determine whether the functions P and Q are continuous or not. Since there is also x^3 and x^2 in the denominators from the original problem. I'm sorry if this seems a bit confusing.
 
  • #13
sheriff89 said:
P and Q not being continuous depends on THEIR expression having x^3 or x^2 at the denominator.

Ah OK! Thanks for this clarification, sheriff89.:smile:
 

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