Independent translational momentum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the motion of a ruler on a frictionless surface after being subjected to an impulse orthogonal to its long axis. Participants explore the relationship between translational and rotational motion, particularly how the distance from the center of mass affects translational speed and angular velocity, while also referencing the work-energy theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the translational velocity of the ruler is independent of the distance between the center of mass and the line of action of the impulse, while the angular velocity is dependent on that distance.
  • Another participant questions the units of torque in the context of the work-energy equation presented, suggesting a mismatch.
  • A participant acknowledges a mistake in their earlier equation regarding torque, indicating that it should be integrated with respect to angle instead of distance, and clarifies that the torque is the z component.
  • One participant proposes that applying a force at a distance creates torque without reducing the force, suggesting that angular impulse does not affect translational impulse.
  • Another participant reflects on the challenge of finding an object that imparts a constant impulse and considers the effects of impact distance on both the puck's and ruler's speeds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the relationship between translational and rotational motion and whether the inputs are indeed different. There is no consensus on the implications of the torque and impulse interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their understanding of the work-energy theorem and the integration of torque, as well as the complexity of real-world applications involving constant impulses.

nomism
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Hi everyone,

I was watching an MIT OpenCourseWare video where the lecturer describes the problem of a rulers motion on a frictionless surface after being subjected to a 'short' impulse orthogonal to the long axis of the ruler.

(sorry as a new user I can't post images, youtube 'MIT torque lecture 21' for a problem description at 14:45 mins)

He goes on to show that the resulting translational velocity is independent of the distance between the centre of mass and the line of action of impulse
despite the fact that resulting angular velocity is dependent on that same distance.

The resultant translational direction seems obvious, but I have trouble reconciling the translational speed with the work energy theorem in the accompanying class notes (below) as I thought that equal impulses would input equal amounts of energy into the system

i.e. by my thinking rotational momentum would decrease and translational momentum would increase as the impulse is applied closer to the centre of mass

Please could someone explain this to me:smile:

[tex]W_{o,f}^{total} = \int_{o}^{f} \vec{F}_{ext}^{total}\cdot d\vec{r} + \int_{o}^{f} \vec{\tau }_{cm}^{total}\cdot d\vec{r}[/tex]
[tex] = (\frac{1}{2}mV_{cm,f}^{2} + \frac{1}{2}I_{cm}\omega_{cm,f}^{2} )-<br /> (\frac{1}{2}mV_{cm,f}^{2} + \frac{1}{2}I_{cm}\omega_{cm,i}^{2} )[/tex]
[tex]= \Delta K_{trans} + \Delta K_{rot} = \Delta K_{total}[/tex]
 
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if [itex]\tau[/itex] is torque, the units don't match... I don't think that can be. What is [itex]\tau[/itex] in this equation?
 
damnet that is tough
 
Thanks for the replies so far. The tau symbol is torque but I made a mistake in the second integral, it should have been with respect to the angle d theta. The units should match now.

I also forget to include the brackets to show that this is the z component of tau (i.e. the magnitude of the torque vector orthogonal to the centre of mass)

(sorry about not being able to post links but the set of notes the equation was taken from can be found by googling
'Module 27: Rigid Body Dynamics: Rotation and Translation about a Fixed Axis')

[tex]W_{o,f}^{total} = \int_{o}^{f} \vec{F}_{ext}^{total}\cdot d\vec{r} + \int_{o}^{f} (\vec{\tau }_{cm}^{total})_{z}<br /> <br /> \cdot d\theta[/tex]
[tex] = (\frac{1}{2}mV_{cm,f}^{2} + \frac{1}{2}I_{cm}\omega_{cm,f}^{2} )-<br /> (\frac{1}{2}mV_{cm,f}^{2} + \frac{1}{2}I_{cm}\omega_{cm,i}^{2} )[/tex]
[tex]= \Delta K_{trans} + \Delta K_{rot} = \Delta K_{rot}[/tex]

Perhaps my problem is that the inputs are in fact different. I.e. a force at a distance also creates a torque and the creation of said torque does not reduce the force therefore the creation of an angular impulse does not affect the translational impulse. Does this sound reasonable to everyone?

I also can't think of an object that would impart a constant impulse kinetically. The closest I could think of is a hockey puck sliding across the surface and imparting it's kinetic energy to the ruler. However I can imagine that point of impacts distance from the centre of mass would have an effect on the pucks speed after the impact as well as the rulers.

Has anybody ever seen an experiment like this?
 

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