Index notation tensors quick question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the manipulation of indices in tensor notation, specifically regarding the treatment of dummy and free indices in mathematical expressions. Participants explore the implications of renaming indices and the rules governing their usage in tensor equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that indices ##p## and ##r## are dummy indices and suggests they can be renamed, raising a concern about the implications for the third term if ##p## is renamed to ##r##.
  • Another participant agrees that the first term is the negative of the second term and suggests that they cancel, leaving only the third and fourth terms, but reiterates the concern about having four ##r##'s in the third term if indices are renamed.
  • A further participant clarifies that if a free index is relabeled in one term, it must be relabeled in all terms where it appears, while dummy indices can be relabeled without affecting other terms, as long as it does not lead to illegal configurations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the rules for renaming indices but express differing views on the implications of these rules for the specific terms in the equation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the manipulation of indices in the context presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the legality of certain index manipulations and the potential for confusion when multiple indices are involved in a single term.

binbagsss
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My text has:

##\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}V^{p}-\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{r}}V^{r}+\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}T^{p}_{qr}V^{r}+\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}\frac{\partial }{\partial x^{q}}V^{p}=\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}T^{p}_{qr}V^{r}+\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}\frac{\partial }{\partial x^{q}}V^{p}##

Looking at the 1st and 2nd terms, I see that ##p## and ##r## are dummy indices, so we can just rename them. But, surely this affects the 3rd term - e.g- say I name ##p=r## then they cancel, but I would have 4 r's in the 3rd term - which is not allowed. you can only have an index repeated twice in a single term right?

I'm not sure how to manipulate the indices to get this equality.

Thanks for your help.
(this won't look like anything well-known, I've taken out the irrelevant terms that do not contain any of the indices above).
 
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binbagsss said:
My text has:

##\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}V^{p}-\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{r}}V^{r}+\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}T^{p}_{qr}V^{r}+\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}\frac{\partial }{\partial x^{q}}V^{p}=\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}T^{p}_{qr}V^{r}+\frac{\partial x^{a}}{\partial x^{p}}\frac{\partial }{\partial x^{q}}V^{p}##

Looking at the 1st and 2nd terms, I see that ##p## and ##r## are dummy indices, so we can just rename them. But, surely this affects the 3rd term - e.g- say I name ##p=r## then they cancel, but I would have 4 r's in the 3rd term - which is not allowed. you can only have an index repeated twice in a single term right?

I'm not sure how to manipulate the indices to get this equality.

I'm not sure what manipulation you are talking about. As you noted, the first term is the negative of the second term, which you can see by renaming dummy indices. So they cancel, leaving just the 3rd and 4th terms.
 
stevendaryl said:
I'm not sure what manipulation you are talking about. As you noted, the first term is the negative of the second term, which you can see by renaming dummy indices. So they cancel, leaving just the 3rd and 4th terms.
But..surely this affects the 3rd term - e.g- say I name p=r then they cancel, but I would have 4 r's in the 3rd term - which is not allowed. you can only have an index repeated twice in a single term right?
 
If you relabel a free index in one term, you have to relabel this index in all the terms in which it appears. If you relabel a pair of dummy indices index in one term, you do not have have to relabel dummy indices in any terms. In fact, you are prohibited from relabeling if relabeling results in something illegal.
 
George Jones said:
If you relabel a free index in one term, you have to relabel this index in all the terms in which it appears. If you relabel a pair of dummy indices index in one term, you do not have have to relabel dummy indices in any terms. In fact, you are prohibited from relabeling if relabeling results in something illegal.

I see. thanks.
 

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