Explore Coordinate Dependent Statements in Orodruin's Insight

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the expansion of coordinates in the context of general relativity, specifically examining the equation presented in Orodruin's Insight "Explore Coordinate Dependent Statements in an Expanding Universe." Participants explore the implications of expanding general curved coordinates and the relationship to tensor transformation laws.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the rationale behind expanding ##x^a## and seeks clarification on the origin of the equation presented in Orodruin's Insight.
  • Another participant identifies ##e_\mu^a## as components of a tetrad, suggesting a connection to orthonormal vectors in the context of Gaussian coordinates.
  • Some participants argue that the coordinates ##x^a## are not tensor components, which affects the application of the ordinary tensor transformation equation.
  • It is proposed that the first equation represents the initial terms of a Taylor series expansion, with references to old notes supporting this view.
  • A later reply elaborates on the Taylor expansion in multiple coordinates, providing a formal expression involving operator exponentials and differential operators.
  • Another participant corrects a notation issue in the Taylor series expression, indicating a personal understanding of the expansion process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the nature of the coordinates and the Taylor series expansion, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the specifics of the equation's derivation and the implications of the terms involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions of terms like ##c_{\mu\nu}^a## and the exact nature of the relationship between the coordinates and the tensor transformation laws. The discussion reflects a mix of technical reasoning and personal insights without reaching a consensus on all points.

George Keeling
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TL;DR
Peculiar Coordinate conversion in Orodruin's Insight "Explore Coordinate Dependent Statements in an Expanding Universe"
I am studying @Orodruin's Insight "Explore Coordinate Dependent Statements in an Expanding Universe". It looks pretty interesting. About three pages in it reads "expanding ##x^a## to second order in ##\xi^\mu## generally leads to$$
x^a=e_\mu^a\xi^\mu+c_{\mu\nu}^a\xi^\mu\xi^\nu+\mathcal{O}_3
$$where we have introduced the notation ##\mathcal{O}_n## for terms that are of order three [##n##?] or higher in the coordinates." I don't know why one would expand ##x^a## like that.

##x^a## are general curved coordinates, ##\xi^\mu## are local Minkowski coordinates at some point ##p##. ##e_\mu## are orthonormal vectors at ##p## in the ##\xi^\mu## system. They might be basis vectors, I am not sure. ##e_\mu^a## are the coordinates of ##e_\mu## in the ##x^a## system. ##c_{\mu\nu}^a## is a mysterious thing to be discovered. It turns out to be not a tensor but more like a Christoffel symbol. I think. We are also told earlier that $$
e_\mu^a=\frac{\partial x^a}{\partial\xi^\mu}
$$so the first part of the first equation is $$
x^a=\frac{\partial x^a}{\partial\xi^\mu}\xi^\mu
$$which is just the tensor transformation law.

Where does the first equation come from and why don't we use the ordinary tensor transformation equation?
 
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The ##\underline{u}_{\mu}## denote a tetrad, i.e., four orthonormal vectors (in the sense of the Lorentzian metric) with the ##\xi_{\mu}## Gaussian coordinates at a spacetime point. The ##e_{\mu}^a## are the components of the ##\mu##-th tetrad vector wrt. the holonomous basis defined by the coordinates ##x^a##.
 
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George Keeling said:
Where does the first equation come from and why don't we use the ordinary tensor transformation equation?
Because ##x^a## are general curved coordinates, not tensor components. In general coordinates, differentials of coordinates are tensors but coordinates are not.

The first equation is, in effect, the first few terms of a Taylor series.
 
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DrGreg said:
Because ##x^a## are general curved coordinates, not tensor components.
I realized that last night o:). Luckily I didn't get up. It is the second time in as many weeks that I have tripped up on the T T equation!
DrGreg said:
The first equation is, in effect, the first few terms of a Taylor series.
I had some old notes on the Taylor series for a function of two variables and, when extended to four, it works for an expansion at the origin and gives Orodruin's equation perfectly 💡. Thank you!
 
To remember the Taylor expansion in multiple coordinates note that you can write it in terms of the operator exponential function as
$$f(\vec{x}+\vec{a})=\exp(a^j \partial_j) f(\vec{x}).$$
Now just Taylor expand the exp and note that all ##\partial_j## commute with each other (in the appropriate domain of these differential operators of course ;-)):
$$\exp(a^j \partial_j) = \sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{k!} (a^j \partial_j)^k = \sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{k!} a^{j_1} \partial_{j_1} \cdots a^{j_k}\partial_k.$$
Then the Taylor series around ##\vec{x}## reads [Edit in view of #6]
$$f(\vec{x}+\vec{a})=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{k!} a^{j_1} \cdots a^{j_k} \partial_{j_1} \cdots \partial_{j_k} f(\vec{x}).$$
 
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I guess the last equation under
vanhees71 said:
Then the Taylor series around ##\vec{x}## reads
should have less brackets on the left and more arrows on the right:$$
f\left(\vec{x}+\vec{a}\right)=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty}{\frac{1}{k!}a^{j_1}\cdots a^{j_k}\partial_{j_1}\cdots\partial_{j_k}f\left(\vec{x}\right)}
$$I expanded the ##k=2## term in that for two dimensions and it came out just like my old notes on the Taylor series for a function of two variables. My notes improve. Thank you!
PS I originally found the expansion on math.libretexts.org. It's at equation (6) there.
 
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