Induced magnetism or Induced e.m.f.

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    Induced Magnetism
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of induced magnetism and induced electromotive force (e.m.f.) in the context of two trolleys, one connected to a d.c. circuit and the other to a load resistor. Participants explore the implications of magnetic fields and induction when one trolley is moved towards the other.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that when trolley A, which has a north pole on its right side, is pushed towards trolley B, the left side of B will have a south pole due to the induced magnetic field from A.
  • Another participant argues that according to Lenz's law, the left side of B would actually be a north pole to oppose the change caused by A.
  • It is noted that if energy is dissipated in the resistor connected to A, then A must be doing work, which influences the magnetic interaction with B.
  • There is a discussion about the conditions under which an induced e.m.f. occurs, with one participant asserting that a magnet must be doing work for induction to take place.
  • Another participant clarifies that if the magnet is stationary, the left side of B would have to be a south pole due to magnetic induction, although this is contested by the requirement for a changing magnetic field for induction to occur.
  • One participant emphasizes that magnetic fields cannot do work but can redirect work, particularly in the context of pushing a magnet into a solenoid.
  • There is a question raised about whether there would still be a south pole on B if there is no current induced in its solenoid.
  • A later reply states that if there is no current in solenoid B, then its magnetic field contribution is negligible, relying solely on the magnetic field from A.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the magnetic poles induced in trolley B, with some asserting it would be a south pole while others argue for a north pole based on Lenz's law. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the magnetic induction in trolley B under different conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for a changing magnetic field for induction to occur, and there are assumptions about the materials involved in solenoid B that may affect its magnetic properties.

Kyoma
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My classmates had an argument.

There are 2 trolleys; one of them (A) is attached to a solenoid wrapped around a soft-iron core, which is connected to a d.c. circuit. There's another trolley (B) which is attached to a solenoid wrapped around a soft-iron core but it is connected to a load resistor.

Apparently, according to the right-hand grip rule, there is a north-pole formed on the right side of (A). When (A) is pushed towards the right, towards (B), what is the pole of the left side of (B)? The north pole or the south pole?

My friend said it was the south pole, since the electromagnet in (A) would induce a south pole on the left side of (B). But, the other said it was the north pole, according to Lenz's laws.

So, which is which?
 
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Since energy is being dissipated in the resistor, moving magnet A is doing work, and therefore encountering resistance. Consequently if A has a north pole on its right, B must acquire a north pole on its left to oppose it.
 
Yeah, Bill is correct. The way I visualise it is that a magnetic field is created which is in opposite direction to the magnetic field which created it.
 
So, as long as a magnet does work, there will be an induced e.m.f.?
 
yes, (as long as the solenoid attached to the resistor doesn't have a gap in the wire) - otherwise a current wouldn't be able to flow through it.
 
Thank you very much.

But, if the magnet is stationary, the left side of B will have to be a south-pole since there is a magnetic induction?
 
If the magnet was stationary, and had already been on for a while, then there would be no current induced in B because a changing magnetic field is required for induction at B.
This changing magnetic field can either be caused by the magnet moving relative to B, or by the magnet being switched on.
 
Great answers. Not to be pendantic, but strictly speaking, magnetic fields cannot do work, they can only redirect work. So for instance, when pushing a magnet into a solenoid, the force of your hand inwards is redirected into an electromotive force around the coils. That is why "free energy" perpetual motion machines using magnets will never succeed.
 
Yes, there's no current in the solenoid in B (there's no electromagnetic induction), but will there be a south-pole, a magnetic induction?
 
  • #10
If there is no current in solenoid B, then the only contribution to the magnetic field is from A.
A magnetic field can be made either by magnetisation of a material (for example a bar magnet), or by a moving current of charges.
Since I'm assuming the material which solenoid B is made out of can't be magnetised, and there is no current through B, then B doesn't contribute to the magnetic field.
 

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