Inelastic collision of two soccer balls of different masses

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the inelastic collision of two soccer balls of different masses, particularly focusing on the phenomenon observed when one ball is stacked on top of another and dropped. Participants explore the mechanics of energy transfer during the collision, the role of the coefficient of restitution, and the effects of mass on rebound height. The scope includes theoretical considerations, experimental observations, and conceptual clarifications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experiment involving two stacked soccer balls, noting the smaller ball's significant lift when dropped, and requests papers on inelastic collisions.
  • Another participant suggests focusing on the potential energy stored during deformation rather than the inelastic nature of the collision itself, emphasizing the timing of energy conversion.
  • A participant shares experimental results indicating that increasing the mass of the top ball led to decreased lift height, prompting a need to analyze energy losses and mass effects.
  • Questions arise regarding the coefficient of restitution (COR) when bouncing the balls independently, specifically whether the COR in the equation refers to one ball or a combination of both.
  • One participant asserts that the floor's elasticity must be considered, suggesting that the COR is a product of the coefficients of both balls and the floor.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of the floor having a coefficient of restitution, questioning how it can be measured and suggesting that it is more about the interaction between the ball and the floor.
  • Further clarification is provided that different surfaces (e.g., mud vs. marble) affect the bounce height, indicating that the floor's properties influence the overall energy dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of the inelastic nature of the collision, the role of the floor's elasticity, and the interpretation of the coefficient of restitution. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of energy transfer during collisions, including the potential energy stored in deformation and the timing of energy release. There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and measurements of the coefficient of restitution in different contexts.

GreenSabbath
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
You might or might not have seen the astro blaster. But if you drop two soccer balls (stacked together) you'll notice that the smaller top soccer ball lifts up to great heights. I am researching this phenomenon for my extended essay and would really appreciate it if you guys could provide me with some good papers on inelastic collisions. So far I've only been able to incorporate the elastic collison equation along with COR.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/c/b/5cbdceba601a68315f744dc1c06e9ba7.png"


Help and ideas would be really appreciated.
Specially Information about loss from spin etc.

Thanks
Sabbath
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
GreenSabbath said:
You might or might not have seen the astro blaster. But if you drop two soccer balls (stacked together) you'll notice that the smaller top soccer ball lifts up to great heights. I am researching this phenomenon for my extended essay and would really appreciate it if you guys could provide me with some good papers on inelastic collisions. So far I've only been able to incorporate the elastic collison equation along with COR.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/c/b/5cbdceba601a68315f744dc1c06e9ba7.png"


Help and ideas would be really appreciated.
Specially Information about loss from spin etc.

Thanks
Sabbath
I would not concentrate much on the inelastic nature of the collision. The collision is inelastic only for the time that the balls are deformed. At this time, the kinetic energy of the balls is stored as potential energy in the compression of air inside the ball. You have to examine that potential energy and its conversion back into kinetic energy, then analyse the relative timing of the compression/expansion of the two balls in order to explain what happens.

AM
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The elastic collison equation actually gives me the 9x theoretical velocity amplification I hypothesized, however I've already conducted my experiment ( I increased the mass of my top ball by adding weight making it eventually 5 times heavier than the orignally larger ball). I noticed a decrease in the lift off height, now i need to write about the energy losses incurred and the effect of mass on the rebound height.


Do I make any sense? OR am i just rambling/
Thanks AM for trying
 
I guess I have to be a lot more specific to get help. I have two soccer balls and let's say bouncing each of them independently i get two separate coefficient of restitutions for the two balls.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/c...c1c06e9ba7.png
Now in this equation which c is being talked about?
Is it the c of only one of the balls with the floor or is it c1*c2.
Does this equation cover both the energy loss in the collision between the balls and the floor/ or only the balls with each other?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The floor's elasticity counts also, so it's c1*c2*c3 (c3 being the floor). Also, the ideal situation, where only the top ball bounces and the bottom ball remains in contact with the floor doesn't always happen. If the bottom ball leaves the floor, then it's using up some of the total kinetic energy after the bounce.

A similar thing can be done on a trampoline. Multiple people land on a trampoline at the same time, then all but one of them quickly raise their legs to pull them off the trampoline, so all the downwards energy from the mulitiple people now goes into catapulting the solo victim skyward.
 
Last edited:
The floor has a value of restitution? sounds very absurd !
Doesnt measuring the rebound height and orignal height of a bouncing ball measure the coefficient of restitution of the ball and floor.
 
GreenSabbath said:
The floor has a value of restitution? sounds very absurd ! Doesnt measuring the rebound height and orignal height of a bouncing ball measure the coefficient of restitution of the ball and floor.
Yes, it's really the interaction between ball and floor. Dropping a soccer ball on mud will produce less bounce than dropping it on a solid marble floor.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
8K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K