Infinite Gravity: Photons Particles w/o Mass?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ange de L'inconnu
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gravity Infinite
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of photons, specifically addressing their classification as particles despite having no mass. Participants explore the implications of this classification, the conversion of energy into matter, and the complexities of quantum mechanics versus classical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how photons can be considered particles if they lack mass, suggesting they might be merely a conceptual tool for understanding light.
  • Another participant asserts that photons are "tiny bits of pure energy" that exhibit both wave-like and particle-like behavior, acknowledging the complexity of their description.
  • A participant raises the question of whether energy can be converted into matter, proposing that if this is possible, photons could potentially be converted into matter.
  • Further discussion includes the possibility of converting energy back into matter, with one participant noting that while matter can be converted into energy, energy conversion into matter occurs only in small amounts through particle accelerators.
  • Another participant confirms that energy can indeed be converted into matter, referencing experiments at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center where light was turned into a small amount of matter.
  • Concerns are raised about the resulting particles being smaller than atoms and the challenges of forming familiar matter due to conservation laws and the tendency of matter and antimatter to annihilate each other.
  • A participant distinguishes between classical and quantum mechanical notions of particles, suggesting that while photons are not classical particles, they fit into a broader quantum mechanical framework.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of photons and the conversion of energy into matter. There is no consensus on the implications of these concepts, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the classification of photons and the feasibility of energy-matter conversion.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of classical particle concepts when applied to photons and the complexities involved in energy-matter conversion, which depend on specific conditions and experimental setups.

Ange de L'inconnu
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
How can photons be particles if they have no mass? Are they just a concept so that light can be rationalized, or do they really exist? Please pardon my ignorance, as I am still relatively young (15.)
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
Ange de L'inconnu said:
How can photons be particles if they have no mass? Are they just a concept so that light can be rationalized, or do they really exist? Please pardon my ignorance, as I am still relatively young (15.)

Ange, photons are tiny bits of pure energy. Sometimes they act like waves, and sometimes they act like particles. Yes, they really exist but a complete description can be very complicated.
 
mijoon said:
Ange, photons are tiny bits of pure energy. Sometimes they act like waves, and sometimes they act like particles. Yes, they really exist but a complete description can be very complicated.

Can energy be converted into matter? If so, then couldn't we convert photons into matter?
 
And if we could convert energy into matter, could it happen the other way around?
 
|Orion's Thought| said:
And if we could convert energy into matter, could it happen the other way around?

As far as I know, matter can be converted into energy, but energy can only be converted into matter in extremely small subatomic amounts using particle accelerators that cannot be assembled to form atoms, molecules, etc. because of conservation laws of energy. Am I right?
 
Energy can be converted into matter. At the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (S.L.A.C.), they used high powered lasers and electromagnetic fields to turn light into a tiny amount of matter, as you said, about particle size.
 
Last edited:
|Orion's Thought| said:
Energy can be converted into matter. At the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (S.L.A.C.), they used high powered lasers and electromagnetic fields to turn light into a tiny amount of matter.

Yes, but as I said above, the particles that result from this are even smaller than atoms. The reason they cannot form the kind of matter we are familiar with is described above. Usually, when particle accelerators are used, matter and antimatter pairs are created, which have the unfortunate tendency to unite and form energy again. Antimatter has been separated from matter using magnetic fields before, but this is difficult.
 
Last edited:
How can photons be particles if they have no mass? Are they just a concept so that light can be rationalized, or do they really exist? Please pardon my ignorance, as I am still relatively young (15.)
Basically, what you mean by "particle" is probably what we call the classical notion of a particle. That concept is fine and good for classical approximations, but it breaks down at extreme scales.

A photon is not a classical particle.

However, we now have a quantum mechanical notion of particle which generalizes (and "fixes") the old notion of a classical particle. A photion is this sort of particle.

You don't actually have to get to quantum mechanical levels for this to be useful -- I believe that things like solitons and phonons are essentially the same idea, and they behave at the classical level.
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Gravity inside an exponential mass disk
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
Undergrad The initial density of an object and its compression into a black hole
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
6K
Undergrad Energy conservation in Doppler (NOT cosmological) redshifts?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Undergrad Is Gravity a Force or Curvature?
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
6K
Undergrad Does the expansion of the Universe heat stars and bodies?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Undergrad Question Regarding Determining the Mass of Venus
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
High School Consequences of the Existence of Gravitational Waves?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Undergrad On gravity and the conservation of energy
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
High School Red shifted tired light doubts
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Undergrad Can Gravity Escape a Black Hole?
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K