Integral of 1/x: Negative x Solution

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    Integral
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral of the function 1/x, particularly focusing on how to handle the case when x is negative. Participants explore the implications of integrating this function across different domains, including the use of logarithmic identities and definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the integral of 1/x can be expressed as ln(-x) + C for negative x, arguing that -x is positive.
  • Another participant counters that the integral should be expressed as ln(|x|) + C, emphasizing that x can be either positive or negative.
  • Some participants highlight that ln(-x) is not a valid expression in the reals due to conflicts with logarithmic properties, particularly when considering ln(-1).
  • One participant asserts that while ln(-x) is valid for negative x, the logarithmic property ln(ab) = ln(a) + ln(b) applies only to positive a and b, suggesting that this does not invalidate ln(-x).
  • A later reply introduces the idea that ln(-x) can be expressed as ln(-1) + ln(x), leading to a complex number result involving iπ.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and interpretation of ln(-x) and the integral of 1/x for negative values. There is no consensus on the correct approach or interpretation, and multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the definitions of logarithmic functions and the conditions under which they apply, particularly in relation to negative values and the properties of logarithms.

arpon
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As we know, [itex]\int \frac {1}{x} \, dx = ln (x) + C[/itex]
But, what it would be, if [itex]x[/itex] is negative?
I calculated this way,
[itex]\int \frac {1}{x} \, dx = - \int \frac {1}{-x} \, dx = \int \frac {1}{-x} \, d(-x) = ln (-x) + C[/itex] [because, [itex]-x[/itex] has a positive value.]
 
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The variable ##x## can be either positive or negative because the fact is, [tex]\int \frac{1}{x} dx = \ln({|x|}) + C[/tex]
 
The function 1/x is (maximally) defined at all points in R minus 0, the natural logarithm only at points >0. It turns out that ## \ln -x ## is not a valid expression in the reals, because it conflicts with the known ##\ln ab = \ln a + \ln b## by being forced to consider ##\ln -1##.
 
dextercioby said:
The function 1/x is (maximally) defined at all points in R minus 0, the natural logarithm only at points >0. It turns out that ## \ln -x ## is not a valid expression in the reals, because it conflicts with the known ##\ln ab = \ln a + \ln b## by being forced to consider ##\ln -1##.

##ln(-x)## is a valid expression for negative x.

##\ln(ab) = \ln(a) + \ln(b)## is a property which is valid for positive a and b, it is not a definition of the logarithm. The property being unsatisfied for negatives has nothing to do with whether ##\ln(-x)## is defined or not.
 
Last edited:
To maximize the confusion: ln(-x) = ln((-1)*x) = ln(-1) + ln(x) = iπ + ln(x)
 

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