Integration and antiderivatives in class

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of integration and antiderivatives, particularly focusing on the application of the power rule for integration. Participants explore specific functions, their derivatives, and the challenges encountered when applying standard integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the function f(x) = 1/x^3 and attempts to find its antiderivative using the power rule, suggesting that the process yields x^(-2)/(-2) as the antiderivative.
  • Another participant points out that for g(x) = 1/x, applying the same method leads to an undefined expression, indicating that the power rule does not apply when n = -1, and that the antiderivative is actually ln|x|.
  • A different participant corrects the initial misunderstanding about the relationship between f(x) and its antiderivative, clarifying that F(x) should be defined as the antiderivative of f(x), not its derivative.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of including the constant of integration when discussing antiderivatives, noting that there are infinitely many antiderivatives for a given function.
  • Another participant reiterates the power rule for integration, highlighting that it is only valid for n ≠ -1, and questions whether participants know the function whose derivative is 1/x.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of the power rule for integration, particularly in the case of n = -1. There is no consensus on the best approach to finding antiderivatives for the functions discussed, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these mathematical principles.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the application of the power rule, particularly the undefined nature of the expression when n = -1, and the necessity of considering the constant of integration in antiderivative calculations. There is also mention of the dependence on definitions of functions like the natural logarithm.

3ephemeralwnd
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Ive just started learning about integration and antiderivatives in class, and I've got a question

Say we have:

f(x) = 1/x^3 , and f'(x) = F(x)

g(x) = 1/X , and g'(x) = G(x)

then to find the antiderivative of f(x), i would solve it like this:
first rewrite it as : x^(-3),
= x^(-3 + 1) / ( -3+1)
= x^ (-2) / (-2)
which i believe is the correct antiderivative function

but for g(x), if i were to use the same method, i'd get
x^(-1),
= x^(-1+1)
= x^0
= 1
but the actual antiderivative is ln|x| (since the derivative of lnx = 1/x)

why doesn't that the first method work anymore?
 
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3ephemeralwnd said:
Ive just started learning about integration and antiderivatives in class, and I've got a question

Say we have:

f(x) = 1/x^3 , and f'(x) = F(x)

g(x) = 1/X , and g'(x) = G(x)

then to find the antiderivative of f(x), i would solve it like this:
first rewrite it as : x^(-3),
= x^(-3 + 1) / ( -3+1)
= x^ (-2) / (-2)
which i believe is the correct antiderivative function

but for g(x), if i were to use the same method, i'd get
x^(-1),
= x^(-1+1)
= x^0
= 1
but the actual antiderivative is ln|x| (since the derivative of lnx = 1/x)

why doesn't that the first method work anymore?

Actually, you'll get x^(-1+1)/(-1+1) which is undefined because the denominator is zero. All this shows is that the power rule is inapplicable in this case and another method has to be applied. Depending on how you define the natural logarithm, it's either trivial to find the antiderivative of x^-1 or it will take some work, for instance if you start with the infinite series definition of e.
 


3ephemeralwnd said:
Ive just started learning about integration and antiderivatives in class, and I've got a question

Say we have:

f(x) = 1/x^3 , and f'(x) = F(x)
The above is incorrect if F(x) is supposed to be an antiderivative of f(x). As you have things, F(x) = f'(x) = d/dx(x-3) = -3x-4. Since the thread title indicates that you are interested in antiderivatives, not derivatives, the second equation above should be f(x) = F'(x). IOW, the derivative of some as-yet-unknown function F(x) is 1/x3.

3ephemeralwnd said:
g(x) = 1/X , and g'(x) = G(x)
Same as above. What I think you mean is that g(x) = G'(x), and you would like to find G(x).
3ephemeralwnd said:
then to find the antiderivative of f(x), i would solve it like this:
first rewrite it as : x^(-3),
= x^(-3 + 1) / ( -3+1)
= x^ (-2) / (-2)
For this problem, you have the basic technique right, but what you are saying isn't correct. The main thing that is wrong is that you are saying that the f(x) is equal to its own antiderivative, which is almost never true. Here's what you should be saying:

f(x) = x-3
F(x) = \int f(x) dx = \int x^{-3}dx = \frac{x^{-2}}{-2} + C

The other thing is that you are leaving out the constant of integration, which I show above as C. Differentiation and antidifferentiation are opposite operations, with one important difference: For any given (differentiable) function, there is only one derivative. For any given (integrable) function, there are an infinite number of antiderivatives.

3ephemeralwnd said:
which i believe is the correct antiderivative function

but for g(x), if i were to use the same method, i'd get
x^(-1),
= x^(-1+1)
= x^0
= 1
but the actual antiderivative is ln|x| (since the derivative of lnx = 1/x)

why doesn't that the first method work anymore?
You are using the integration power rule, but you aren't reading the fine print. This rule says that
\int x^n dx = \frac{x^{n +1}}{n + 1} + C
provided that n \neq -1.
That's the fine print.
 


Specifically, x^{n+1}/(n+1) is the anti-derivative of x^n (as long as x\ne -1 because the derivative of x^n is nx^{n-1} for all n and so the derivative of x^{n+1}/(n+1)<formula class="mathJaxEqu" data-display="false">is <formula class="mathJaxEqu" data-display="false">(n+1)/(n+1)x^{n+1-1}= x^n[/math].<br /> <br /> That is NOT correct for n= -1 because the derivative of <formula class="mathJaxEqu" data-display="false">x^{-1+ 1}= x^0= 1</formula> is 0.<br /> <br /> However, there <b>is</b> a function, f(x), whose derivative is 1/x. Do you know what it is?</formula></formula>
 

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