Integration : Are a function and it's derivative independent?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of a function and its derivative, specifically examining the expression $$I=\int \frac{1}{1+f'(x)}f'(x)dx$$ and whether the integration leads to a correct result when assuming independence between the function and its derivative.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the integration process and the assumption of independence between the function and its derivative.
  • One participant suggests that differentiating the result may help verify the correctness of the integration.
  • Another participant provides a derivative calculation, indicating a more complex relationship between the function and its derivative than initially assumed.
  • There is a reference to using computational tools like WolframAlpha to check the integration, raising questions about the interpretation of partial derivatives.
  • Participants discuss whether the derivative of the proposed integral matches the integrand, questioning the validity of the integration result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the integration or the implications of assuming independence between the function and its derivative. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the integration process and its verification.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the relationship between a function and its derivative, including the implications of treating them as independent variables and the challenges in verifying integration results through differentiation.

jk22
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The question is a bit confused, but it refers to if the following integration is correct :

$$I=\int \frac{1}{1+f'(x)}f'(x)dx$$

$$df=f'(x)dx$$

$$\Rightarrow I=\int\frac{1}{1+f'}df=?\frac{f}{1+f'}+C$$

The last equality would come if I suppose $f,f'$ are independent variables.
 
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jk22 said:
The question is a bit confused, but it refers to if the following integration is correct :

$$I=\int \frac{1}{1+f'(x)}f'(x)dx$$

$$df=f'(x)dx$$

$$\Rightarrow I=\int\frac{1}{1+f'}df=?\frac{f}{1+f'}+C$$

The last equality would come if I suppose $f,f'$ are independent variables.
Try differentiating the result and see whether you get the integrand.
 
I get $$\frac{d}{dx}\frac{f(x)}{1+f'(x)}=\frac{f'(x)}{1+f'(x)}+f(x)\frac{(-1)}{(1+f'(x))^2}f''(x)$$

But if I try : Integrate(1/(1+D(f(x),x)),f) on WolframAlpha I get the above result ?!
Or maybe the partial derivative means something else ?
 
You asked initially whether
jk22 said:
$$I=\int\frac{f'}{1+f'}dx=?\frac{f}{1+f'}+C$$
and have been told to differentiate. So
$$
\dfrac{d}{dx} I =\dfrac{f'}{1+f'}
$$
and the question is, whether this equals ##\dfrac{d}{dx}\left(\dfrac{f}{1+f'}+C\right)##. Does it?
 

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