Interesting inter-conversions of carbon compounds

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the inter-conversions of carbon compounds, specifically focusing on the reactions involving the alkene CH2=CHCHCH3, the addition of HCl, and subsequent reactions with KOH. Participants explore the structural formulas of the products and the placement of functional groups, while addressing concepts such as Markovnikov's rule.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • The original alkene CH2=CHCHCH3 reacts with HCl to form CH3CHClCH2CH3, and participants discuss the expected product Y after reaction with KOH.
  • Some participants propose that Y should be an alcohol, with differing opinions on the correct structural formula, suggesting either 2-methylpropanol or butan-1-ol.
  • There is a question regarding the rearrangement of the carbon chain from a straight to a branched structure during the reaction.
  • One participant points out a potential discrepancy in the molecular formula on the left-hand side of the reaction, questioning the number of hydrogen atoms present.
  • Markovnikov's rule is mentioned in relation to the substitution of Cl, but participants debate its relevance to the placement of the hydroxyl group in the final product.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct structural formula for Y, with no consensus reached on whether it is 2-methylpropanol or butan-1-ol. Additionally, there is uncertainty regarding the implications of Markovnikov's rule in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the structural representation of the reactants and products, particularly concerning the hydrogen count and the application of Markovnikov's rule in the context of the reactions discussed.

new hand
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Homework Statement


CH2=CHCHCH3 + X --> CH3CHClCH2CH3

CH3CHClCH2CH3 + KOH(aq) --> Y
then what is the structural formula of Y ?? (show clearly where the functional group located)

The Attempt at a Solution


It is obvious that X is HCl, and Y should be an alcohol but where is the hydroxyl group be attached and why?
 
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can you draw the structural formula for me?? I am really confused
 
My answer is 2-methylpropanol but someone told me that it is butan-1-ol which one is correct?
 
new hand said:
2-methylpropanol

Why do you think the straight chain of the original alkene gets rearranged?
 
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As OH group will replace the chlorine atom in the second carbon atom (counted from the left)as written in the question
Correct or not?
 
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Yes, OH replaces the Cl. But why do you think it ends with the conversion of a straight C-C-C-C chain to a branched one?
 
Borek said:
Yes, OH replaces the Cl. But why do you think it ends with the conversion of a straight C-C-C-C chain to a branched one?
As CH3CHClCH2CH3 is changed to CH3CH(OH)CH2CH3

Oh my mistake!
is the answer butan-2-ol?
 
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Looks like.
 
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  • #10
Can a non-chemist just query a couple of points please?

In the OP
new hand said:
CH2=CHCHCH3 + X --> CH3CHClCH2CH3
On the LHS it looks to me like the third C should have another H ? And if X is HCl, there seems to be one H short on the LHS? ( C4H7 +HCl -> C4H9Cl )

In Borek's first response, Markovnikov's rule seems to tell us where the Cl gets substituted, which is not the question? The position of the Cl seems to be shown already in the second equation and the question seems to be, where does the OH get put when it substitutes for the Cl. In my naivety, I simply guessed the OH would go in the same place as the Cl, but does Markovnikov have something to say about it?
When I looked it up (I didn't know it) it seemed to apply to A-C=C-B + HX situations. But in the second reaction, the double bond is already gone and we're looking at P-CCl-Q + OH-
 
  • #11
Merlin3189 said:
On the LHS it looks to me like the third C should have another H ? And if X is HCl, there seems to be one H short on the LHS? ( C4H7 +HCl -> C4H9Cl )

Yep, the equation was a little bit lousy.

Merlin3189 said:
Markovnikov's rule seems to tell us where the Cl gets substituted, which is not the question?

Yes, but that's actually the only thing that matters here, as the next step is just an SN reaction in which (as you correctly assumed) -OH replaces -Cl. So the final product is defined by the way HCl reacts with the double bond.
 

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