# Interesting interferometer experiment!

#### crx

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#### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Moved from S&D, maybe appropriate for the physics forum.

Since we have no references I chose GD.

#### dlgoff

Gold Member
I'm thinking one of the mirrors is changing position slightly during each revolution (longer then shorter path length) causing the change in pattern. It does make you wonder.

#### lisab

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I'm thinking one of the mirrors is changing position slightly during each revolution (longer then shorter path length) causing the change in pattern. It does make you wonder.
I thought something similar, that some part of the apparatus isn't securely bolted down.

#### Garth

Gold Member
That is interesting.

If the shift in the fringe patterns was due to the apparatus bending, intuitively I would have thought the stationary points would have been when the apparatus was horizontal and under maximum strain. Martin Grusenick reports it at being when the apparatus was at 450 to the horizontal.

The experiment should be repeated under laboratory conditions by a competent experimenter.

Of course Self-Creation Cosmology predicts something like this.....
Although the prediction of the deflection of light by massive bodies is equal in both theories, in SCC a photon in free fall descends at $\frac{3}{2}$ the acceleration of matter. i.e. in free fall a beam of light travelling a distance l is deflected downwards, relative to physical apparatus, by an amount $\delta$ where
$$\delta = \frac{1}{4} g(\frac{l}{c})^2$$
Ah, well.....

Garth

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#### Vasara

It does seem like gravity is causing some of the components to move. However, a quick Google search revealed that he has built a new interferometer that is lighter and more compact, and apparently the new rig exhibits similar interference fringe shift, though to a lesser extent. It would be nice to see this experiment repeated in a zero-g environment to further reduce the effects of gravity.

#### humanino

I'm thinking one of the mirrors is changing position slightly during each revolution (longer then shorter path length) causing the change in pattern
Yes, it's pretty clear to me and I do not believe there is any new physics here : in the vertical position, he has mechanical variations due to the weight of the apparatus. Interferometers are pretty sensitive. At the very least, if he wanted to publish, he would have to provide an estimate of this effect.

#### crx

I wouldn't take any position until i check it myself. All the mechanical and other sources of errors can be easily eliminated...i guess with less than 100 bucks i can build one. Maybe is better instead of rotating it to build it as a pendulum......Any other amateur...?

#### ideasrule

Homework Helper
11.5 fringes corresponds to a roughly 6-micrometer shift in the position of the mirrors. To the engineers here: Given the construction of the device, could the mirrors have shifted by that amount?

#### AverageJoe

I'm not even an engineer and I can tell you that this thing is bunk.

First off, the fringe shift changes based on time of day (his words).
There are no opposite side supports to any piece of the apparatus.
Aluminum is a pretty flexible material and I'm sure those box tubes are moving.
It's not properly balanced linearly. That wood sure looks like it doesn't counter the laser projector.
There are no perpendicular weights to balance the strain on the flimsy L bracket.
It is not fastened with a bearing on both sides.
I don't know if it really matters but that is a very high level light environment (every laser lab I've seen in the movies has black walls :P).

I honestly don't know squat about performing experiments but this looks fishy as all hell.

#### Loren Booda

Where is the rotating experiment's center of gravity?

What is its general relativistic (gravitational) frequency shift?

Is the beam splitter first surface?

Do the experimental results (interference) themselves confirm a mechanical flaw?

#### crx

So i have build real quick an interferometer, one arm like 400mm the other 200mm, and i used a cheap red laser pointer. My results while testing it were that this stuff is so sensitive that the interference pattern will change even when a fly drops a fart at 5 meters from it! I obtained a clear pattern of interference just like Martin did, which wasn't too sensitive and while spinning it vertically or horizontally didn't show any visible change in the pattern. On top of this main pattern i got another interference pattern that was extremely sensitive even to my breath . My conclusion is that the effect that Martin had is too big to be accounted to any new phenomena, but rather to the not well assembled mirrors or beam-splitter. I don't say that could not be something interesting but for that its needed a very sensitive interferometer in VACUUM and if possible in zero gravity! I couldn't observe the variations of the secondary interference pattern because they are way to sensitive to any vibration or even air movement. They become visible only when the interferometer is completely still, even then they jump around from time to time.
One interesting thing was that while the interferometer is still, in horizontal plane, from time to time the main interference pattern is changing but I'm very sure is not from the surrounding vibrations...i guess maybe is because of the lasers wavelength is not stable....
Why the interference pattern is changing when the air its moving between the mirrors?
I don't even understand why we actually have an interference of the light...i thought that electric field are not self-interacting...oh well

#### pallidin

Interesting. Hope further research is done on this.

#### crx

I realised that in the movie we don't see actually an interference between the two split rays but we can see two distinct interference patterns created by the two rays with them-self, so its not a real interference that can give us a good information. I observed that if i overlapped the two distinct interferences i obtain a very sensible interference pattern characteristic to the Michelson interferometer. This interference is very very sensible to any kind of vibrations and air movement too. I build a more precise support and i spun the interferometer again and indeed you can see that the pattern is changing....but still not convinced if not because the air movement despite the fact that the change is opposite symmetrical when the mirrors are going up and when they go down. I still believe that Martin's interference is because of a poorly stabilized mirrors.