Into what kind of energy does the potential energy transforms in this example

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of potential energy in a hypothetical system involving a magnet inside a nearly empty spherical container. Participants explore the implications of this setup in the context of perpetual motion and energy conversion, touching on concepts from physics such as oscillation, energy loss, and the nature of perpetual motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario where a magnet oscillates within a spherical container, questioning how its potential energy would transform, given the assumption of no friction.
  • Another participant clarifies the concept of "perpetual motion," suggesting that perpetual motion refers to a system producing net energy without input, rather than an object maintaining motion indefinitely.
  • A different participant asserts that the magnet would radiate energy as photons, leading to a decrease in its oscillation over time.
  • The original poster acknowledges a misuse of the term "perpetual motion" and speculates that the magnet's potential energy could be transferred to the sphere through photon emission.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the impossibility of perpetual motion in the context of energy conservation, but there are varying interpretations of how energy transformation occurs in the proposed system, particularly regarding the role of photon emission.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions about the ideal conditions of the system, such as the absence of air and friction, which may not reflect real-world scenarios. The discussion also lacks a detailed exploration of the mechanisms of energy transfer and the implications of photon emission.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring concepts in electromagnetism, energy transformation, and the principles of motion in physics.

fluidistic
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Talking with a friend about the perpetual motion (we both know it don't exist but don't know how to prove it) I came with the following system.
Say you have an almost empty magnet sphere. I say almost because at its center it has a little magnet such that it is repulsed by the internal walls of the sphere. If we shake the system a little bit I guess the magnet at the center of the sphere will start to oscillate. Ah I forgot to precise that there's no air into the sphere so that there is not friction in the motion of the little magnet at the sphere's center. If I didn't know that perpetual motion don't exist, I'd say the little magnet would oscillate forever. Clearly it has a potential energy and as there's no perpetual motion, this energy must convert itself into another form of energy. In this case, what would it be? (I'm pretty sure the sphere would gain energy like heat due the electronic stuff... but I didn't study this part of Physics yet so I'm just speculating).
 
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The term "perpetual motion" is a little bit of a misnomer, since via Newton's first law, an object in motion will remain in motion forever unless acted upon by an outside force. So too a hypothetical frictionless oscillation.

What is really meant when people talk about "perpetual motion" being impossible is a net output of energy from a machine that has no input.
 
Said magnet will radiate away some energy in the form of photons and slow down.
 
Thanks to both.
Ok maybe I misused the term "perpetual motion" but this wasn't my intention. :-p
So what would happen is that the magnet would give its potential energy to the sphere via a photon emission... Nice. I really want to study electromagnetism or quantum mechanics right now but I better wait getting there.
 

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