Invertibility of Symplectic Matrices

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the invertibility of symplectic matrices, exploring the properties of symplectic forms and their relation to bilinear forms. Participants examine theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and potential methods for demonstrating invertibility.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a Wikipedia page claiming that symplectic matrices are invertible and questions if there is an easier way to see this beyond calculating determinants.
  • Another participant explains that a matrix A is symplectic if it satisfies the condition A^t J A = J, leading to the conclusion that the determinant of A is nonzero, specifically detA = +/-1.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding the relationship between symplectic forms and symmetric/quadratic forms, suggesting they may generalize concepts like inner products or metrics.
  • A participant expresses confusion about how the nondegeneracy condition of the symplectic form aids in demonstrating the invertibility of the matrix J, proposing a basis-dependent approach to establish this.
  • Another participant asserts that the invertibility is basis-independent due to the involvement of an invertible change of basis matrix, suggesting that the relationship between matrices in different bases maintains the property of invertibility.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of nondegeneracy for invertibility and the relationship between symplectic forms and other types of forms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to demonstrate the invertibility of symplectic matrices.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the invertibility may depend on the choice of basis, and there are unresolved mathematical steps in establishing the relationship between symplectic forms and other bilinear forms.

WWGD
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Hi, All:

The Wikipedia page on symplectic matrices:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symplectic_vector_space ,

claims that symplectic matrices are invertible

, i.e., skew-symmetric nxn-

matrix with entries w(b_i,b_j) , satisfying the properties:

i)w(b_i,b_i)=0

ii)w(b_i,b_j)=-w(b_j,b_i)

iii)w(b_i,.)=0 , i.e., w(b_i,b_j)=0 for all b_j

are invertible.

Even for small n , calculating the determinant seems to get out of hand;

Is there an easy way of seeing this?

TIA

Thanks.

iii)w(bi,.)=0 , then bi=0
 
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Call the matrix of your symplectic form J. Then a matrix A is symplectic (wrt your form) iff A^t J A = J. From this you get (detA)^2 = 1, since det J != 0 (which is because J is coming from nondegenerate bilinear form). In particular, detA=+/-1 is nonzero.

In fact, you can show that detA=1, but this much more difficult...
 
A couple of followup questions:

i)AFAIK, symplectic forms and symmetric/quadratic forms represent a generalization of

, I think it was inner-product and maybe the norm or length, maybe even a metric;

anyone know?

TIA.
 
morphism said:
Call the matrix of your symplectic form J. Then a matrix A is symplectic (wrt your form) iff A^t J A = J. From this you get (detA)^2 = 1, since det J != 0 (which is because J is coming from nondegenerate bilinear form). In particular, detA=+/-1 is nonzero.

In fact, you can show that detA=1, but this much more difficult...


Thanks, morphism, but I was actually trying to show that J itself is nonsingular; I don't see

how the nondegeneracy condition helps show invertibility. I guess one could choose a basis

{b1,..,bn}, and then set up something like:

w(bi,bj)=biTJbj , where T is the matrix (w_ij:=w(bi,bj)) , for the above choice

of basis {b1,b2,..,bn} and then w(bi,bj)=0 for all bj only if bi=0 . Maybe we can

also set up a symplectic basis {b1',b2',..,bn'} , i.e., a basis so that w(bi',bj')=

δi'j' . But then the result may be basis-dependent.

Any Ideas?
 
WWGD said:
A couple of followup questions:

i)AFAIK, symplectic forms and symmetric/quadratic forms represent a generalization of

, I think it was inner-product and maybe the norm or length, maybe even a metric;

anyone know?

TIA.
A symplectic form is a nondegenerate skew-symmetric bilinear form.
A (real) inner product is a nondegenerate symmetric bilinear form. (Well, it's not just nondegenerate - it's positive-definite.)

WWGD said:
Thanks, morphism, but I was actually trying to show that J itself is nonsingular; I don't see

how the nondegeneracy condition helps show invertibility. I guess one could choose a basis

{b1,..,bn}, and then set up something like:

w(bi,bj)=biTJbj , where T is the matrix (w_ij:=w(bi,bj)) , for the above choice

of basis {b1,b2,..,bn} and then w(bi,bj)=0 for all bj only if bi=0 . Maybe we can

also set up a symplectic basis {b1',b2',..,bn'} , i.e., a basis so that w(bi',bj')=

δi'j' . But then the result may be basis-dependent.

Any Ideas?
The invertibility is basis-independent, because there's an invertible change of basis matrix involved. I.e. if you write A for the matrix of your nondegenerate bilinear form in one basis, and write B for it in another basis, then there will be an invertible matrix S such that A=SBS^{-1}.
 
Last edited:

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