Ionization temperature of an atom

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the temperature required to ionize an atom, specifically helium, and determining the number of atoms that are ionized or unionized at a given temperature. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, particularly the Saha Ionization Equation and its limitations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the calculation of ionization temperature and the number of ionized atoms, indicating a need for clarity on these concepts.
  • Another participant suggests consulting the Saha Ionization Equation, noting that it is well-documented, including on Wikipedia.
  • A participant raises a concern regarding the applicability of the Saha equation when the ionization fraction approaches 1, questioning its validity outside thermal equilibrium.
  • One contributor shares a modified version of the Saha equation and discusses the implications when the left-hand side approaches 1, suggesting that this leads to the need for infinitely large temperatures to further ionize atoms.
  • Another participant notes that the equation for the fraction of ionized atoms is derived from the Boltzmann distribution, adding a layer of complexity to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the Saha equation under certain conditions, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist regarding the ionization process and its theoretical underpinnings.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions of thermal equilibrium and the conditions under which the Saha equation is valid, as well as the implications of approaching ionization fractions of 1.

Boltzmann2012
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Hi,
How do we calculate the temperature required to ionize an atom, say, helium. Also how can we find the number of atoms ionized or unionized at a given temperature?

Boltzmann
 
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You should check out the Saha Ionization Equation(s) (or Saha-Langmuir Equation). I must say, wikipedia actually has a good page on the equation(s) and its use.
 
Thanks. I have read it and it is nice.

But what should we do when the ionization fraction tends to 1, I.e the Saha ionization eqn is valid only for thermal equillibrium.

Regards

Boltzmann
 
- Firstly, sorry it took me so long to reply. I have to say I was stumped by your question and was looking for my notes when I learned about the equation, but unfortunately I couldn't find them.

- I'm just going to tell you what I know. When I learned it, my professor wrote the equation differently (in the equation below, I modified the variables so it has the same variable names as that for Wikipedia):
\frac{g_{i}}{g_{i+1}}\frac{n_{i+1}}{n_{i}}\frac{n_{e}\Lambda^{3}}{2} = e^{-\frac{\Delta\epsilon}{k_{B}T}}

- As the entire term on the left tends to 1, then it will take an infinitely large temperature and thus an infinitely large amount of energy to further ionize atoms (in most cases we consider the first ionization state (so n0 and n1 for example). Therefore, this acts as a limiting scenario. I remember my professor ascribing a name to this scenario (as though someone had discovered it and had their ascribed to it). But to be honest I don't remember all that well so this is my educated guess.

- If I didn't answer your question I'm sorry, but that's all I've got (good question)!
 
Thank you for the reply. It was most useful.

Regards

L.Boltzmann
 
The irony here is that the equation for fraction of atoms ionized at a given temperature is derived from Boltzmann distribution.
 
Ah, Thank you for reminding.

Ludwig Boltzmann
 

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