News Iranian Elections: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Wins by Landslide

[rootX]

How good is to help Iran people in opposing their government?

 

[Hans de Vries]

Google's Persian (Farsi) to English translation (alpha version) can still
be accessed via the following link:

http://translate.google.com/translate_t#fa|en|

It's not available from their main page.

http://www.facebook.com/mousavi
http://www.leader.ir/
http://www.president.ir/fa/Regards, Hans.

 

[qsa]

Done.

How good is to help Iran people in opposing their government?

Google's Persian (Farsi) to English translation (alpha version) can still
be accessed via the following link:

http://translate.google.com/translate_t#fa|en|

It's not available from their main page.

http://www.facebook.com/mousavi
http://www.leader.ir/
http://www.president.ir/fa/


Regards, Hans.

I think you will do well by helping to clean up your own society. The Iranians will take care of their own. No need to fake concerns. One billion people are hungry tonight.

 

[seycyrus]

I think you will do well by helping to clean up your own society. The Iranians will take care of their own. No need to fake concerns. One billion people are hungry tonight.

Don't make assumptions regarding the nature of another person's concerns.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No need to fake concerns.

What makes you think the concerns are fake? You talk as if you have no understanding of the West whatsoever.

Why are the protestors displaying signs written in English?

 

[Office_Shredder]

I think you will do well by helping to clean up your own society. The Iranians will take care of their own. No need to fake concerns. One billion people are hungry tonight.

Strawman argument?

 

[turbo]

We have Iranian members here. I chatted with one of them last night around midnight (thanks for leaving that open Greg - it was nice to touch base.)

 

[qsa]

Don't make assumptions regarding the nature of another person's concerns.

What makes you think the concerns are fake? You talk as if you have no understanding of the West whatsoever.

Why are the protestors displaying signs written in English?

Strawman argument?

I wish to God that you really mean it. And it is not just politics of interest. That will be a wonderful world.

 

[qsa]

What makes you think the concerns are fake? You talk as if you have no understanding of the West whatsoever.

Why are the protestors displaying signs written in English?

Sorry if I was misunderstood. I like all the people of the world especially western ones since I have lived with them most of my adult life. I usually do not participate in forums It takes too much time to explain (I do read once in a while to update on people’s minds). But I found the root of all the disputes is in knowing enough details (matched to the statement being made) and in the real purpose of the arguments (if understanding the issue is fundamental or we just want to prove our point regardless).I apologize for any ruddiness.

 

[rootX]

I think you will do well by helping to clean up your own society. The Iranians will take care of their own. No need to fake concerns. One billion people are hungry tonight.

Sorry if I was misunderstood. I like all the people of the world especially western ones since I have lived with them most of my adult life. I usually do not participate in forums It takes too much time to explain (I do read once in a while to update on people’s minds). But I found the root of all the disputes is in knowing enough details (matched to the statement being made) and in the real purpose of the arguments (if understanding the issue is fundamental or we just want to prove our point regardless).I apologize for any ruddiness.

I've put some effort into cleaning up this thread to keep the off-topic rants down. For the new members, this is a good thread on an important and historic event. Don't ruin it by injecting these off topic rants into the discussion. And consider the purpose of your membership on PhysicsForums.

For the existing members, try to avoid responding to these rants and instead report them. I've also contributed by responding and I'll try to stop as well. I know it can be tough...

I never used the report functionality .. I believe you are going off topic.

The Iranians will take care of their own.

That's what I was talking about. I don't think authorities will change now - they claimed elections were not rigged. Encouraging the opposition would only result in the losses of more lives but I don't think that would change anything.

 

[qsa]

I never used the report functionality .. I believe you are going off topic.


That's what I was talking about. I don't think authorities will change now - they claimed elections were not rigged. Encouraging the opposition would only result in the losses of more lives but I don't think that would change anything.

I agree with you ,that is why I think there is no easy way to know if outsiders can help or hurt. Iran is a young democracy of a sort, they will learn from their mistakes,maybe.

 

[Count Iblis]

Was the election result a deliberate provocation by the conservatives to bring the reformists on the streets? The election results were so outrageous that you would almost have to believe this.


You can imagine that the government wanted to silence the opposition at this time when they could still do it, rather than the opposition gaining power and then slowly having to sit and watch how Iran becomes a secular state. If in the future they wanted to intervene, it would be too late.


So, perhaps the government thought: "Let's have a Tiananmen moment right now. Let's not rig the votes a little by letting Ahmadinejad win by 1%, let's instead give him a huge lead".


The government can monitor cell phone traffic and the internet, so they would have gained a lot of intelligence about the opposition. The people who would be inclined to defect to the opposition would have done so. The government thus knows who is loyal and who is not. They can now take repressive measures against the people who are not loyal to the regime.


On the foreign policy front there are also advantages. The US will now find it difficult to offer to Iran to lift sanctions in exchange for Iran giving up uranium enrichment. The US position in this dispute will thus be weakened, as it is the US that wants something from Iran here, not the other way around.

 

[Cyrus]

I found this video to be very interesting

VsPooaGUsG4&feature=fvw[/youtube]

 

[Ivan Seeking]

IMO:

What Iran has learned is that the genie is out of the bottle. As a result of the information age, the "Great Satan" nonsense will continue to strain credibility such that change is a foregone conclusion. It is really just a matter of how, and how fast it happens.

The Iranian people will not tolerate a police state - they are much too sophisticated for that and dictators can no longer hide their actions. Also, now the opposition has an entire field of martyrs.

It will become more and more clear that the American people, the West in general, and the Iranian people, are already great friends at heart. The only thing getting in the way now is the time it will take for the politics to catch up.

 

[LowlyPion]

Was the election result a deliberate provocation by the conservatives to bring the reformists on the streets? The election results were so outrageous that you would almost have to believe this.

After reading the Khameini Prayer speech from last week, I am afraid that the clerics must think the people really are stupid enough to accept concocted tallies. The hope I suspect was that they couldn't suffer a close election, because a run-off might be a bit too much given the elevated interest and the growing reform for women's rights. So ... I guess if it was going to be dial-a-result already, then they likely figured in for a penny, in for a rial.

Unfortunately I think, regardless of the short term, there is a guaranteed long term loss for the current ruling clique. On the one hand they want to embrace technology, they want the atom bomb, ... but to do all of that they need highly skilled workers. That means education. That means connectivity. That means people thinking for themselves and not just taking orders. That means democracy is an inevitable consequence, regardless of their repression.

I think they only fool themselves if they think that they can continue indefinitely to rule by force. And in this the clerics make themselves hypocrites, if they choose the side of repression against the people. Choosing secular power, over theology. Once again power corrupts, and even the Supreme Leader, apparently lacks the wisdom and the strength to resist its intoxication. The sands of progress are weighing daily against them. And they grow old, while the legions of the young swell and get ever more educated.

 

[math_04]

It will become more and more clear that the American people, the West in general, and the Iranian people, are already great friends at heart. The only thing getting in the way now is the time it will take for the politics to catch up.

Most people in the world are friends with one another, it is just politicians and their propaganda machines that drive a wedge between possible friendship. Unfortunately, both the US and Iran have politicians who have an innate distrust of one another. The world will certainly be a better place when that distrust is replaced with friendship.

I think they only fool themselves if they think that they can continue indefinitely to rule by force. And in this the clerics make themselves hypocrites, if they choose the side of repression against the people. Choosing secular power, over theology. Once again power corrupts, and even the Supreme Leader, apparently lacks the wisdom and the strength to resist its intoxication

Unfortunately, you probably will see Iran ruled by a theocracy for at least the next 10-15 years. Already the 'green revolution' is gradually dissipating because many Iranians, no matter how brave, cannot bear to see fellow countrymen mowed down indiscriminately by a brutal security force. And there still is not enough support, they need a few high ranking officials and clerics to speak out against the regime. But these protests are the seeds of a revolution in the making just like the overthrow of the Shah. Things do not happen quickly, they take time and the regime is doomed to collapse.

Was the election result a deliberate provocation by the conservatives to bring the reformists on the streets? The election results were so outrageous that you would almost have to believe this.

Well, the Iranian regime probably expected a few protests which could be handled easily but they were taken aback by the sheer number and support from a few powerful figures within the establishment. I think they wanted to show the world and the reformists that no one can challenge the regime and attempt to send a message that Iran is strong, united and hates Western influence. Well, it did backfire spectacularly!

 

[Math Is Hard]

I went to a protest in Westwood tonight. The support is huge here because there is such a big Iranian community. The crowds seem to grow every day, and I hope the pictures are making it back to Iran.

 

[Phrak]

There's irony here.

Iranians learned the power of the press and overthrew the Shah, 30 years ago. The streets would be quite. Western cameras arrived ready to roll. The crowds would gather. "Death to the Shah." "Death to America." Chanting and gesturing to the cameras. US flags could materialize to be burned.

When the cameras stopped rolling, the crowds would peaceful disperse to resume their suspended business.

The sons and daughters have learned from the stories of the parents to overthrow what their parents have made.

 

[Phrak]

The Iranian people will not tolerate a police state

Tolerance? Tolerance has nothing to do with it. Power to change does.

- they are much too sophisticated for that

How does intolerance derive from 'sophistication'? Do you mean disillusionment?

 

[LowlyPion]

Meanwhile behind the scenes ...

Iran supreme leader's son seen as power broker with big ambitions Mojtaba Khamenei is being positioned to succeed his father, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, but he lacks the stature to overcome any opposition from a key panel, analysts and former dissidents say.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-khamenei-son25-2009jun25,0,6876741.story

 

[LowlyPion]

Then comes this reference:

"The city is on lockdown, and we are like sheep ready to be slaughtered," said one Teherani in a brief telephone interview. "It is important for us to be prepared and to have protection," he added, implying an effort to obtain arms. "Anyway, 40 days from Saturday's bloodshed" - a key symbolic day of mourning - "we will be ready."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1245184920016&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Not exactly the way Gandhi approached things.

 

[LowlyPion]

US Rescinds Invitations to Iranian Diplomats
By David Gollust
State Department
24 June 2009

The Obama administration said Wednesday it has rescinded invitations to Iranian diplomats to attend July 4 U.S. Independence Day celebrations at American diplomatic missions around the world. The State Department said an Iranian presence at such events would be incongruous with a celebration of American values.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-06-24-voa58.cfm

Apparently it would be lost on them in any event.

 

[Flat]

This is for anyone who wants to take an active role:

I don't know how much of this is true, so could someone please verify?

As most of you know, most of the news coming out of Iran is coming via the Internet, especially social websites like Twitter, Facebook, etc.. News through "official channels" is notoriously unreliable, as the government controls the media. The government is also trying to control the Internet channels, and attempting to track down Iranians who post on the social networks.

Anyone who wants to help, and has an account on one of the social networks (or is willing to open an account, as I have) can simply open their "profile," change their location to "Tehran," and their local time to GMT + 3:30. Many bloggers, Facebook ers', and Twits (is that the correct personal form?) Are doing this in the hopes that, every time they post, it gives the Iranian government one more thing to track down. The idea is to introduce hundreds of millions of decoys into the hunt, making their task impossible.

or
http://iran.whyweprotest.net/

 

[LowlyPion]

Disorganized unrest from yesterday apparently.
The current regime must know they are in deep doody at this point. They don't look to be in such firm control, at least in the streets. I was reading that they are showing lots of films now on the state TV stations to hopefully occupy people at home ... just like the Shah did in 1979. Khameini might want to think for a moment about how that worked out for the Shah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD13WNKNGQk

 

[Count Iblis]

If divisions spread to the security forces and the army as it did at the time of the Shah, then things will change rapidly. Otherwise I don't think anything will change.

 

[Sorry!]

It's illegal for the Iranians to protest peacefully right? All I know is that if protest around here started off this way instead of just a demonstration I would be quite pissed off regardless of if the protestors were right or wrong

 

[MATLABdude]

For those who haven't seen it, a great look at Iran (in better times about a month ago) courtesy of Jason Jones and the Daily Show:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/castBio.jhtml?castId=25158

Canadians can go to Comedy Network online:
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart/correspondents/#clip186805

A great series of clips chronicling the people of Iran presented with the standard Jason Jones mock-idiot host. Ends on a rather somber and distinctly serious note (shot after they came back probably near the start of the Iranian elections).

EDIT: The last clip (June 25th) probably hasn't yet been posted

 

[Astronuc]

An interesting perspective on Iran and the US response.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=231561


According to Reza Aslan, Iran is teetering between [becoming like] China (more open to the world) or N. Korea (more militaristic and closed).

 

[LowlyPion]

The inevitable collision of events - culture, propaganda, news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOx4avw8WY

 

[buffordboy23]

LowlyPion, nice video. It stirred significant emotion within me. It fired me up to see people fighting for their own freedom. Many people in Iran have probably never felt more alive than now.