Is a High-Cost Undergraduate Degree Worth the Debt for Aspiring Scientists?

[Bill_B]

Why don't you want to go to college in Florida? If it's just because you "hate" it, then that could all change when you move out of your parents and gain some independence.

To build on Cristo's comment -

When I turned 18, I promptly moved 100 miles away from my parents. I got a job, rented an apartment, and found a roommate to offset rent and utility costs. I was still close enough to visit my parents when I wanted to, but far enough away that I could live my own life. It worked out very well.

Your profile says you're a student at Valencia. I'm sure you don't want to go to UCF, since that probably means living at home with your parents. But what about the other 10 schools in the state university system? (USF, UF, FSU, UNF, UWF, FAU... the list goes on) You could move away and be independent, but still pay in-state tuition rates.

 

[kaos86]

I don't get it. This is why you want to get in 200K of debt??

Nah, just doing some research and making some calculations. You people are really helping me here. I really appreciate it.

 

[kaos86]

To build on Cristo's comment -

When I turned 18, I promptly moved 100 miles away from my parents. I got a job, rented an apartment, and found a roommate to offset rent and utility costs. I was still close enough to visit my parents when I wanted to, but far enough away that I could live my own life. It worked out very well.

Your profile says you're a student at Valencia. I'm sure you don't want to go to UCF, since that probably means living at home with your parents. But what about the other 10 schools in the state university system? (USF, UF, FSU, UNF, UWF, FAU... the list goes on) You could move away and be independent, but still pay in-state tuition rates.

I'll double check on the universities in my state, but I just hope they have free transportation for shuttle buses and on-campus housing.

 

[contramundum]

If you're determined to leave Florida you could look into UVA or UNC. Apparently they give pretty good OOS finaid.

 

[kaos86]

Well, true, Princeton is pretty competitive, but you can't be sure you wouldn't get in. (Though for the record, you can't transfer to Princeton, they only accept applicants as freshmen) (EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize you were already a college student)

Wait, a transfer student has a bigger chance getting into a hard-entrance university? I should try but I only have a 3.0 GPA from my community college. Do you think it needs to get higher for a better chance? I will try if I only need a 3.0 or higher from the GPA scale.

 

[Jokerhelper]

I'll double check on the universities in my state, but I just hope they have free transportation for shuttle buses and on-campus housing.

Sorry, but why do you even care if the transportation is free? Paying for a monthly bus pass should be the least of your worries financially. Plus, in any case I doubt it's actually free anyway, most likely it if a transportation pass is offered there will be some sort of mandatory fee included in your tuition fees, whether hidden or not.

 

[Jack21222]

Sorry, but why do you even care if the transportation is free? Paying for a monthly bus pass should be the least of your worries financially. Plus, in any case I doubt it's actually free anyway, most likely it if a transportation pass is offered there will be some sort of mandatory fee included in your tuition fees, whether hidden or not.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I read that. "40,000 per year in tuition? No problem. 200 per year in bus passes? NO WAY!"

 

[kaos86]

Sorry, but why do you even care if the transportation is free? Paying for a monthly bus pass should be the least of your worries financially. Plus, in any case I doubt it's actually free anyway, most likely it if a transportation pass is offered there will be some sort of mandatory fee included in your tuition fees, whether hidden or not.

That's what I'm looking at. Hidden charges and probably more hidden charges from this school. I just want a university that can be reliable for transportation. I read the review from a website about this university and the students review it. They had different topics about the university: Academics, Diversity, on-campus housing, transportation, etc...

BTW, the website is Collegeprowler.com

 

[Jokerhelper]

Do all US States charge higher rates for out-of-state students? I'm surprised by this.

 

[Jokerhelper]

That's what I'm looking at. Hidden charges and probably more hidden charges from this school. I just want a university that can be reliable for transportation. I read the review from a website about this university and the students review it. They had different topics about the university: Academics, Diversity, on-campus housing, transportation, etc...

BTW, the website is Collegeprowler.com

If I were you I'd try to ignore those kinds of websites as much as possible. us students can be very trivial with what is relevant and important for a good university/college. I'd be surprised if more than 2% of those ratings were from physics students. Finding good instructors and most importantly taking time to do your own studying will be far more helpful than anything else a university offer.

Also, since you care so much about public transportation, my city (Calgary) was named a few years ago to have the worst public transportation in major North America cities. Yet I've hardly ever had problems getting to my school on time. If it can't get any worse than my situation, you will most likely be fine.

 

[kaos86]

Do all US States charge higher rates for out-of-state students? I'm surprised by this.

I'm surprised, too. I was trying to double check this tuition and I think my calculations are correct. If I do go to this university, I see myself working hard. However, the debt repayment will take years to pay back. What if I do get a good job? I will continue my education to try to earn a Ph.D. in physics. If I get a Ph.D. in physics and I get a good job, will it increase my chance to pay this monstrous debt even faster? It all depends how hard I work as a physicist or find a good well paying job.

 

[lisab]

Do all US States charge higher rates for out-of-state students? I'm surprised by this.

The reason for this is each student's education is heavily subsidized by the state. If a student is from out of state, then it's presumed his family hasn't been paying into the state coffers (through various taxes), so he will have to make up the difference. Also there's less chance for him to stay as a tax-paying resident. So it's not in the State's interest to spend lots of $$$ educating out-of-state students.

As far as I know, all states have higher tuition rates for out-of-state students.

 

[kaos86]

As far as I know, all states have higher tuition rates for out-of-state students.

That is true. I was looking at the U. of Delaware and its a bit expensive as well. Still, better then the U. of Vermont. The only problem I have with U. of Delaware is that its in a suburban area.

 

[Jokerhelper]

I'm surprised, too. I was trying to double check this tuition and I think my calculations are correct. If I do go to this university, I see myself working hard. However, the debt repayment will take years to pay back. What if I do get a good job? I will continue my education to try to earn a Ph.D. in physics. If I get a Ph.D. in physics and I get a good job, will it increase my chance to pay this monstrous debt even faster? It all depends how hard I work as a physicist or find a good well paying job.

My main concern though is that this debt is completely UNNECESSARY and USELESS. The universities in your state offer physics programs that are probably just as good if not even better than Vermont. If you want to go on to get a Ph.D., what really matters is getting good grades, hired in summer jobs at labs, getting some research under your belt and possibly your name published in as many science journals as possible.

If you go on to get your degree for those fees, well best thing that can happen is you will end up getting your bachelor with 180K of unnecessary debt. At worse, when you realize how this will affect your life you will freak out.

 

[Jokerhelper]

The reason for this is each student's education is heavily subsidized by the state. If a student is from out of state, then it's presumed his family hasn't been paying into the state coffers (through various taxes), so he will have to make up the difference. Also there's less chance for him to stay as a tax-paying resident. So it's not in the State's interest to spend lots of $$$ educating out-of-state students.

As far as I know, all states have higher tuition rates for out-of-state students.

Oh I see, thanks. So are they basically like international students (only without the visa charges)?

 

[diazona]

Wait, a transfer student has a bigger chance getting into a hard-entrance university? I should try but I only have a 3.0 GPA from my community college. Do you think it needs to get higher for a better chance? I will try if I only need a 3.0 or higher from the GPA scale.

Sorry if you were confused by my post - I was saying that Princeton doesn't accept transfer students at all.

And I suspect the same is true of most other highly competitive colleges as well (although I'm not sure).

 

[clamchowder]

Sorry if you were confused by my post - I was saying that Princeton doesn't accept transfer students at all.

And I suspect the same is true of most other highly competitive colleges as well (although I'm not sure).

Pretty sure Harvard, Stanford, Duke and those other places do. For the UC system, they only accept junior year transfers though and they aren't exactly cheap either.

What about Canada? College there is less than $47k a year and there's public transport (depends...). And don't get hooked on the whole I have no car and will need transportation thing. $200 in bus passes is nothing compared to $47k tuition or the cost of a car.

Sometimes, private colleges have more financial aid to offer than state, but I don't know about transfer students. Might be worth a look.

I've been looking at colleges too...really glad I recently moved to Cali so I can take advantage of in-state without being bored of this place and needing to leave.

 

[twofish-quant]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone went or transfer to a university and ended up "knee-deep" debt. I wanted to ask this because the university I'm trying to get into is very expensive, but I love everything else about the university. BTW, I'm an out of state student transferring to the University of Vermont.(total tuition for out of state: $45,188)

Is there any particularly reason you have to go to that university? I'm pretty sure that you can find a university with comparable quality of education that is much, much cheaper.

 

[twofish-quant]

My main concern though is that this debt is completely UNNECESSARY and USELESS. The universities in your state offer physics programs that are probably just as good if not even better than Vermont. If you want to go on to get a Ph.D., what really matters is getting good grades, hired in summer jobs at labs, getting some research under your belt and possibly your name published in as many science journals as possible.

Same here concern here. Also if you save $15K in tuition, you can buy a used car that will take care of your transportation needs, and fly yourself first class to physics conferences.

 

[Vanadium 50]

First, let me answer the question at the top. Yes, it's worth it to be in debt for education. Education improves your quality of life, it improves your earning potential, and unlike a car or a house, it cannot be repossessed. Estimates are that a college degree increases the average earning potential by something like a million dollars over a lifetime.

However, one must still ask if the sort of education you will buy makes this a wise investment. UVM is charging 90% of what Harvard or Princeton charges. Are you getting 90% of the education? They don't have a reputation of a strong department, and in looking at the course catalog, I didn't see evidence of a particularly strong program.

You can argue that there is more to UVM than the strength of the physics program - for example, Burlington is a quaint New England town where it might be nice to live. However, now you're buying something in addition to education. That's your choice, but you should recognize that you are doing that.

As far as substantial out-of-state financial aid, it's unlikely. Vermont ranks 49th among the 50 states in state tax revenues (having neither a sales nor income tax), so their university is not overflowing with cash to help non-residents. Rarely, a university can offer in-state tuition to an out-of-state student they are trying to recruit, but this student must be truly exceptional.

If you still are certain you want to go to UVM, you might seriously think about moving there for a year to establish residency. The difference in tuition is $80K over four years, so it would be equivalent to taking an $80K a year job.

 

[lisab]

Oh I see, thanks. So are they basically like international students (only without the visa charges)?

Yes, that's right.

 

[kaos86]

If you still are certain you want to go to UVM, you might seriously think about moving there for a year to establish residency. The difference in tuition is $80K over four years, so it would be equivalent to taking an $80K a year job.

Sounds like a good idea. However, I think I found a good university. The U. of Buffalo is a great place near a large city. The out-of-state resident has to pay $103,952, but with financial-aid it will be $96,653. You guys think its a better choice? I believe this university can be "the one" for me. I have a 3.0 GPA and a transfer applicant needs a 2.5. Transportation is depended on walking, buses, and some metro rail. It's in a large city, so I think I can find a part-time job.

Thoughts please.

Edit:

tuition for one semester is $25,988

 

[turbo]

If you still are certain you want to go to UVM, you might seriously think about moving there for a year to establish residency. The difference in tuition is $80K over four years, so it would be equivalent to taking an $80K a year job.

My niece moved to CA for just that reason. She spent a year waitressing and tending bar to support herself before starting college. It made financial sense.

 

[kaos86]

My niece moved to CA for just that reason. She spent a year waitressing and tending bar to support herself before starting college. It made financial sense.

How old is your niece? And how was this process made? Did she get help from a family member ,or did she borrowed some money to move over there?

 

[turbo]

How old is your niece? And how was this process made? Did she get help from a family member ,or did she borrowed some money to move over there?

She got help from her parents to move out there, but worked her way through college pretty much on her own steam. She's now in her 30s and is a dental hygienist (she went back to school for additional training for that). Good thing, too. Her husband lost his job (industrial electrician) and she was able to support them while he stayed at home with their son.

 

[huskerwr38]

kaos86, this is what you should do. Move to Vermont for a year to establish residency, then go to school. Then you can get in-state tuition...I know it will delay you a year, BUT it will save you tens of thousands of dollars.

Another thought that may save you money, is take a lot of your general education classes at a community college, however, make sure that the classes you take are equivalent with the University of Vermont. A lot of schools establish relationships with the local community college.

 

[DrummingAtom]

If you still are certain you want to go to UVM, you might seriously think about moving there for a year to establish residency. The difference in tuition is $80K over four years, so it would be equivalent to taking an $80K a year job.

My thoughts exactly. This is what I did in my state and it costs me 75% less of what I would have paid. Taking a year off can be annoying but if you use it wisely it can be *very* beneficial. I self studied and worked full time for that year. It made the most financial sense because now I have a great job (relevant to my career goals) while I'm in school.

In my experience, working full time then going to part time after you've been at a place for a bit is a smooth transition. As opposed to getting a job while in school and you have a bunch of limitations initially that need to be brought up during the interview. The hiring manager might be turned off about your "high maintenance" needs. Also, working full time a year before school starts gives you a nice bubble of savings to let you coast through the school years.

 

[kaos86]

She got help from her parents to move out there

She's lucky to have help from her parents. My parents cannot help me to make that big move. I have no money, no job, and no help from my family members. The reason why I want to get away from my state and move up north is because I'm trying to find a state with a large city. I cannot take my car and I need something to get around. It's either walking or biking around the city.

I'm not going to this U. of Vermont. It's too expensive and there program has no "deep" description about the physics programs. All I can smell from the U. of Vermont is "rip-off".

 

[cristo]

kaos86, this is what you should do. Move to Vermont for a year to establish residency, then go to school. Then you can get in-state tuition...I know it will delay you a year, BUT it will save you tens of thousands of dollars.

Isn't it too late now, and that doing this will delay him 2 years (or 1.5, if you can start in the spring semester)?

 

[kaos86]

My thoughts exactly. This is what I did in my state and it costs me 75% less of what I would have paid. Taking a year off can be annoying but if you use it wisely it can be *very* beneficial. I self studied and worked full time for that year. It made the most financial sense because now I have a great job (relevant to my career goals) while I'm in school.

In my experience, working full time then going to part time after you've been at a place for a bit is a smooth transition. As opposed to getting a job while in school and you have a bunch of limitations initially that need to be brought up during the interview. The hiring manager might be turned off about your "high maintenance" needs. Also, working full time a year before school starts gives you a nice bubble of savings to let you coast through the school years.

Taking a year off is really annoying. I remember my brother took a year off from community college and the process to re-admit is annoying. He had to review college algebra because he was going to take trig. I really don't want to fall behind in my studies in physics and trying to practice could be impossible if I was full-time in some restaurant.