Is A Measurable if the Inner and Outer Measures are Equal?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurability of sets \(A\) and \(B\) given that their union \(A \cup B\) is measurable and that the measure of the union equals the sum of their outer measures. Participants explore the implications of this condition and seek to establish whether \(A\) and \(B\) are measurable based on their inner and outer measures.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that to show \(A\) and \(B\) are measurable, it suffices to demonstrate that their inner measures equal their outer measures, specifically needing to show \(\lambda^{*}(A) \leq \lambda_{*}(A)\).
  • Others question the definitions of inner and outer measures and the specific space in which \(A\) and \(B\) reside, suggesting that clarity on these definitions is crucial for the discussion.
  • A participant provides a detailed definition of measures in \(\mathbb{R}^n\), including the measures of special rectangles, polygons, open sets, and compact sets, which they believe is relevant to the problem.
  • Another participant proposes that \(A\) and \(B\) must be almost disjoint, implying that the intersection \(A \cap B\) should be a null set for the equality of measures to hold.
  • One participant outlines a rough proof strategy involving open sets and compact sets to argue that \(A\) should be measurable, although they acknowledge that their reasoning is not fully checked.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the sets being almost disjoint and the implications of the definitions of inner and outer measures. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the approach to proving the measurability of \(A\) and \(B\).

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the implications of their definitions of measures, nor have they clarified the conditions under which the measures are being compared. There is also uncertainty regarding the completeness of the outlined proof strategies.

ryo0071
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Let $$\lambda(A)$$ denote the measure of $$A$$ and let $$\lambda^{*}(A)$$ denote the outer measure of $$A$$ and let $$\lambda_{*}(A)$$ denote the inner measure of $$A$$

Okay so the question is as follows:

Suppose that $$A \cup B$$ is measurable and that
$$\lambda(A \cup B) = \lambda^{*}(A) + \lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$

Prove that $$A$$ and $$B$$ are measurable.

So I know that $$\lambda^{*}(A) < \infty$$ and $$\lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$ otherwise it would contradict $$\lambda(A \cup B) = \lambda^{*}(A) + \lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$ (since if one or both was infinity the sum would be infinity)

So I think it would be enough to show that inner measure is equal to the outer measure. We know that $$\lambda_{*}(A) \leq \lambda^{*}(A)$$ for all sets $$A$$ so I would need to show $$\lambda^{*}(A) \leq \lambda_{*}(A)$$ but I'm not sure how to go about showing this. So first off am I on the right track? Second is how would I go about showing $$\lambda^{*}(A) \leq \lambda_{*}(A)$$ if I am on the right track.

Any help is appreciated.
 
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ryo0071 said:
Let $$\lambda(A)$$ denote the measure of $$A$$ and let $$\lambda^{*}(A)$$ denote the outer measure of $$A$$ and let $$\lambda_{*}(A)$$ denote the inner measure of $$A$$

Okay so the question is as follows:

Suppose that $$A \cup B$$ is measurable and that
$$\lambda(A \cup B) = \lambda^{*}(A) + \lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$

Prove that $$A$$ and $$B$$ are measurable.

So I know that $$\lambda^{*}(A) < \infty$$ and $$\lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$ otherwise it would contradict $$\lambda(A \cup B) = \lambda^{*}(A) + \lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$ (since if one or both was infinity the sum would be infinity)

So I think it would be enough to show that inner measure is equal to the outer measure. We know that $$\lambda_{*}(A) \leq \lambda^{*}(A)$$ for all sets $$A$$ so I would need to show $$\lambda^{*}(A) \leq \lambda_{*}(A)$$ but I'm not sure how to go about showing this. So first off am I on the right track? Second is how would I go about showing $$\lambda^{*}(A) \leq \lambda_{*}(A)$$ if I am on the right track.
There are several different approaches to measure theory, so it would help to know how you are defining inner and outer measure. Also, what space do $A$ and $B$ lie in – $\mathbb{R}$, $\mathbb{R}^n$, a topological space, or a general measure space?
 
Sorry about that. We have that $$A, B \subset \mathbb{R}^n$$.

We developed measure has follows:

Let $$a, b \in \mathbb{R}^n$$. A special rectangle is $$I = \{x \in \mathbb{R}^n | a_i \leq x_i \leq b_i $$ for $$1 \leq i \leq n\}$$
The measure of $$I$$ is $$\lambda(I) = (b_1 - a_1)\cdots(b_n - a_n)$$

We define a special polygon $$P$$ to be a finite union of non overlapping special rectangles. So if $$P = \bigcup_{n = 0}^N I_n$$ with $$I_n$$ special rectangles, then the measure of P is $$\lambda(P) = \sum_{n = 0}^N \lambda(I_n)$$

We defined the measure of an open set $$G$$ to be:
$$\lambda(G) = sup\{\lambda(P)|P \subset G$$ and $$P$$ is a special polygon$$\}$$
The measure of a compact set $$K$$ as:
$$\lambda(K) = inf\{\lambda(G)|K \subset G$$ and $$G$$ is an open set$$\}$$

With the outer measure defined as:
$$\lambda^{*}(A) = inf\{\lambda(G)|A \subset G$$ and $$G$$ is an open set$$\}$$
And the inner measure:
$$\lambda_{*}(A) = sup\{\lambda(K)|K \subset A$$ and $$K$$ is a compact set$$\}$$

I think that should cover everything.

(Also I'm new at writing math on the computer, how would I make it so the limits on the union and the sum were on the side instead of on the top and bottom?)
 
Last edited:
ryo0071 said:
Let $$\lambda(A)$$ denote the measure of $$A$$ and let $$\lambda^{*}(A)$$ denote the outer measure of $$A$$ and let $$\lambda_{*}(A)$$ denote the inner measure of $$A$$

Okay so the question is as follows:

Suppose that $$A \cup B$$ is measurable and that
$$\lambda(A \cup B) = \lambda^{*}(A) + \lambda^{*}(B) < \infty$$

Prove that $$A$$ and $$B$$ are measurable.
My first thought on this was that $A$ and $B$ must be almost disjoint (by which I mean that $A\cap B$ should be a null set). If not, then surely it would be true that $\lambda^{*}(A\cup B) < \lambda^{*}(A) + \lambda^{*}(B)$?

I have not checked this through carefully, but here is a rough outline of why I think $A$ should be measurable. I will write $\sim$ to mean "approximately equals", leaving you to translate into a proper proof with epsilons.

Let $U$ be an open set containing $A$, with $\lambda(U) \sim \lambda^{*}(A)$, and let $V$ be an open set containing $B$, with $\lambda(V) \sim \lambda^{*}(B)$. Then $U\cup V \supseteq A\cup B$ and $\lambda(U\cup V) \sim \lambda(A\cup B)$.

Now let $K$ be a compact set contained in $A\cup B$, with $\lambda(K) \sim \lambda(A\cup B)$. Define $L = K-V$. Then $L$ is a compact set contained in $A$. I think that it should be possible to show that $\lambda(L) \sim \lambda(U)$. If so, then $A$ is trapped between $L$ and $U$, whose measures are almost the same. Therefore $A$ is measurable.

ryo0071 said:
(Also I'm new at writing math on the computer, how would I make it so the limits on the union and the sum were on the side instead of on the top and bottom?)
To produce textstyle LaTeX, use \$ ... \$ tags instead of $$ ... $$.
 

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